Does anyone else think the USPM program at WUSTL is Ridiculous?
I mean seriously these are the requirments to get guaranteed acceptance:
1. maintain a 3.8 grade point average (GPA) as an undergraduate student
2. complete an application to the School of Medicine the year before entering medical studies
3. achieve a total score of 36 on the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT)
4. complete a successful interview with the School of Medicine’s Committee on Admissions.
I mean other BS/MD programs have GPA requirements of at least a 3.3. 3.8 is ridiculous hard to maintain, especially with pre-med courses at top schools.
You have to have a 36 MCAT score to get accepted!!! I mean seriously, you pretty can go to any med school you want with that (ok so Harvard and JHU are a maybe but you can even go out of country). Plus you have to waste your time studying for the MCAT rather than volunteering at hospitals, something that BS/MD degree is for (they want to take the worries of MCAT off and want you to use the time to get experience with medicine). Most BS/MD schools don't even require the MCAT if you are accepted into their program and maintain good GPA.
You have to complete a successful interview, most BS/MD degrees have interviews during your senior year before you are accepted to the college. The interviews at WUSTL are like traditional med school interviews, aka they are much harder and they nail you intensely.
All I can say is that if you have a 3.8 GPA, 36 MCAT, and a successful interview, you pretty much don't have even be in this program to get accepted into their med school. This kinda makes their program obsolete and ridiculously hard to accomplish. I mean 36 MACT is (I believe) in the 97th percentile. I think that is ridiculous that they want people to get that score just so they can have guaranteed admissions into their school, with that score, you can go anywhere you really want.
There are TONS of pre-meds who have a 36 MCAT and 3.8 GPA that are rejected from most schools they apply to. Almost any one of those premeds would kill to have guaranteed acceptance to one of the best medical schools in the country with stats like that. WashU clearly wants to send two messages: 1) Their medical school is not going to lower their standards just for you. They are still one of the most selective med schools in the world. 2) They don't want their students to slack. It's understandable that a student would rather volunteer and do research, but think about all the other premeds who maintain a 3.8+ gpa, have a 36+ MCAT, and still manage time for research and volunteering. If you're smart enough to be accepted as a University Scholar, a 3.8 should be quite easy to maintain.
nooob - Agree with what you say except the very last. A 3.8 is never QUITE EASY to maintain at schools like Wash U except for maybe like 0.000001% of the population. Even really smart people have to work at least somewhat diligently for that GPA.
If you look at JHU's average GPA of students accepted to Med school (including top med schools), it is around 3.5
Duke is just as high as that.
I would be amazed if you can "easily" obtain a 3.8 at Harvard especially in science.
JHU student's get around 3.5, but they accepted to many top med schools like Washington U and Duke Med. Does that mean they aren't smart? JHU's pre-med population is actually quite low, it's because it is so hard to do well in pre-med there, they have grade deflation (the curves). Sure they are selective but my true question is: what is the retention rate on that program? HPME and Brown's
"There are TONS of pre-meds who have a 36 MCAT and 3.8 GPA that are rejected from most schools they apply to."
yes there might be tons of rejected pre-med that are like that BUT the true question also comes down to how many premed have that kind of stats at top schools like Duke, JHU, WUSTL, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Rice, MIT, Caltech etc.
I mean go to Princeton, I doubt you can "easily" maintain an A, especially a 3.8 GPA. Princeton's grade deflation policy is extremely strict, they say that around 35% of students get A's but that is only on a test, not always in the class. I believe 20% or less even have a 3.8 GPA at Princeton, does that mean that those student's are not smart enough to get into WUSTL? no I don't think so, I think some are just as smart as the people in the USPM.
For me, it is not worth it trying to work my butt off to get a 3.8 GPA at WUSTL and not have any time to do any EC such as volunteering and research just so I can go to their med school. I would rather have more medical experience so when I go interview, I would sound much more interested in medicine because of my experience, not because I have been studying. And I highly doubt that the smartest kids can even pull off a 3.8 GPA (including the science classes) and 36 MCAT "easily" and without studying for a long time, and especially while preparing for the interviews along with volunteering at Washington U. And that goes for all top schools.
Also, WUSTL do reject many undergrad applications that they think will be accepted into better schools like HYPSM. This takes out some of the smartest kids because they want to maintain their enrollment. In other words, they reject applications that they think will not select their school because they believe that the applicant (the extremely smart kids who won many national award) will be accepted into HYPSM. This pretty much means that the students accepted will not be like those at HYPSM since they eliminated ones that they think will be accepted at HYPSM, thus meaning that there won't be a lot of students that are "the best of the best" at their school when compared to HYPSM so the number of students that can "easily" maintain a 3.8 (which in the first place is difficult for almost everyone) are reduced.
Simple to say, I really believe that trying to maintain a 3.8 GPA at WUSTL is extremely tough, for even the 4.0 GPA high school students.
"A 3.8 and 36 from outside of the program doesn't guarantee an acceptance at WUSTL's med school. From within the program, it does."
Yes I agree, but again the true question is, how easy would it be to maintain a 3.8 GPA at WUSTL, especially with the science courses and the need for volunteering and research? Thus "what really is the retention/success rate of the people accepted into the program"?
Yes I agree, but again the true question is, how easy would it be to maintain a 3.8 GPA at WUSTL, especially with the science courses and the need for volunteering and research?
I'm betting that's kind of the point... it's not easy. If the Med school were ranked 12th and the undergraduate program were ranked 3rd nationwide (to flip-flop things) maybe it would make sense for acceptance to Undergrad to be a huge boon to getting into the med school. As it is, they're giving students something to work towards, and preparing them (in the process) to attend any other great med school out there if they don't get into WashU's program.
WashU might not want it's pre-med program to be flooded with people who are only there because they think it'll guarantee them acceptance into the med school, although I could be wrong...
This pretty much means that the students accepted will not be like those at HYPSM since they eliminated ones that they think will be accepted at HYPSM, thus meaning that there won't be a lot of students that are "the best of the best" at their school when compared to HYPSM so the number of students that can "easily" maintain a 3.8 (which in the first place is difficult for almost everyone) are reduced.
Prove it. People like to complain about over-qualified candidates being rejected from WUSTL, but there really is no such thing as an over-qualified candidate (until some 18 year old cures cancer and gets rejected).
That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have heard all day. There are plenty of students at WashU who have turned down HYPSM, as well as plenty who didn't even apply (for whatever reason- weather, school department, you name it).
I'll agree with you on this much though, a 3.8 at WashU is pretty damn difficult.
^I have no statistics, but I'm fairly certain that those who are accepted to USPM do maintain those requirements for the most part (assuming they still want to go to med school- plenty of pre-meds change their mind).
Certainly does not seem to be a problem to get more than sufficient applicants for either the USPM or the WashU medical school, so why change? If it is not the right fit for you, then the best solution is to not apply.