interestingguy

By virtue of acknowledging that this is a contrarian position, you're admitting that most people (especially applicants and their parents) find WashU's "gamesmanship" to be highly offensive. Why do you think? If it weren't offensive, then why doesn't WashU come right out and say that it games the US News rankings? Or, why do WashU apologists continue to lie and deny that such gaming exists? I am glad that you find this so "humorous" though.


The problem is that many people don't understand or know about WashU's admissions practices. WashU is certainly not forthcoming about them. The WashU apologists tell prospective students otherwise. (Just read some of the old posts in this forum; they're truly laughable if they weren't so dishonest and misleading.) Seriously, if highly qualified applicants really knew the intent and extent of WashU's admissions practices, why on earth would they bother wasting time and money only to be waitlisted??? Obviously, they're misinformed and WashU truly likes to keep them that way.


Sorry if I don't buy the "WashU is good because it games the US News system" argument. Nice try!

DudeDiligence

InterestingGuy (post #29) ...

"One of WashU's very own" ... "WashU apologist?" Hardly. Instead, I'm just a midwesterner who has known perhaps 10-12 close friends and relatives who have attended Wash U since the early 1970's. While I enjoyed a perfectly satisfactory Big 10 college experience, I visited Wash U numerous times, swapped notes, and witnessed first-hand how this "hidden gem" of a school (and that's how it was perceived "back in the day") provided an altogether different kind of overall college experience. When it came time to consider colleges for my kids, Wash U was a must-see. Pre-med oriented son attended; daughter wanted something else. Son had a great college experience in every possible way and Wash U certainly helped prepare him for success in medical school.

Briefly:
*Comparing Wash U to NU or U of Chicago -- Wash U doesn't have close to the all-important East Coast name recognition as NU or U of Chicago. Nothing wrong with them adopting admissions practices suiting their circumstances, rather than the circumstances of these other fine schools.
*I'd counter that Wash U's admissions practices are absolutely "reasonably fair and transparent." Anybody with open eyes understands that idiosyncratic Wash U handles admissions in a slightly different way. HS college counselors all know this. It's very rare when a highly-qualified applicant who demonstrates real and genuine interest (as Wash U requires ALL of its applicants to do) is waitlisted. If you want a Wash U acceptance, follow their well-known rules. Just because a segment of the college applying public wants this school to function as a guaranteed auto-admit for the highly-qualified applicants of the world does not mean Wash U has to accept this dubious role. Why would they when they are clear about wanting students who want them, and they've had a few generations of incredible success balancing fine academics and a very happy student body?
*As for being "proud" of any idiosyncratic waitlisting practices -- I could not care less. The observant applying public knows what Wash U requires in admissions. Their mission should be to continue with their own brand of successful college education. More power to them if the well-known way they conduct their admissions also sticks it to the silly USNWR ranking system.

Seriously, there is no point continuing to use CC's bandwidth arguing points which have been argued ad nauseam on CC. For my money, it's an Occam's Razor kind of thing. Rather than seeing a conspiracy theory of Wash U as a black-hatted, ill-intentioned manipulator of the all-powerful USNWR for the purpose of bolstering their bottom-line (and messing with the highly-qualified applicants of the world), I prefer to use my 35+ year knowledge of this fine school and see the simpler explanation of an unusual, yet well-known admission practice as their very legitimate way to continue with the spectacular success this out-of-the-way little school has achieved (success measured by a great faculty, incredible facilities, disproportionately large endowment, and a legion of satisfied current students and alums).

DudeDiligence

So, it seems as I spent a little time responding to InterestingGuy in Post #29, I now see a gentleman who wants a full-fledged, point-by-point debate. Sorry. It's not worth my time.

These issues have been discussed to death and it's abundantly clear that Wash U has somewhat of a polarizing effect. Great. Then, have nothing to do with the school. Or, fight the noble battle for the benefit of all and expose Wash U's nefarious practices in the full light of day. Your choice -- it's a free country, man.

My position is pretty clear. Just as clearly, you have a different position. So be it. My original intent was to make certain that folks new to this college application experience understood that there is another side to the "big, bad Wash U" coin. I've done that. I choose to see a fine institution who does things their way for entirely worthwhile reasons. You see something far more sinister. Neither one of us is going to convince the other.

Don_Quixote

Please try to stick to things you know about, interestingguy. For starters, there have been 22 Nobel laureates associated with Washington University, 9 of whom did the major part of their research here. (wikipedia much? ... and yes i know the 22 are mostly faculty, while you refer to alumni, but nobody's arguing that WashU has always been a top 20 school since the 1920's or something - if it had, it would be an ivy now...)

Secondly, that alumni have a positive opinion of their alma mater is kind of a good thing, despite your ingenious and constructive response. Because most people, when looking for a college, want to make a choice they won't regret.

Oh so true. Including you? Or were you still planning to respond to the 4-5 times you've been asked for your association with WUSTL (or *any* college for that matter) at some point in the future?

I still maintain that the only "evidence" for WashU doing anything resembling gaming the system or "shady admissions" is the rumors that wind up on CC. Please do not add to these rumors (which come up every year when decisions come out) unless you have first-hand experience with the school, because the burden of proof will be on you. Does WashU waitlist well-qualified students? Yes. Why? Because the school can only admit so many people. WashU is no different from any other competitive school in this regard - decisions come down to splitting hairs, and not everyone who thinks they ought to get in will get in. Plain and simple.

Sorry for my terseness, but I'm a bit bothered to see legitimate and helpful posters being attacked by posters like "interestingguy" who spend their time doing nothing but deriding schools like WashU, Columbia, and Duke, without ever producing reference to a shred of actual experience with any of them. If this seems like an unfair accusation please check his posting history here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...rchid=18940386

interestingguy

WUSTL student:
WUSTL parent:



WUSTL student:
WUSTL parent:





Translation: WUSTL possesses "Tufts Syndrome"!

interestingguy

Translation: ZERO Nobel Laureates received their undergraduate degrees at WUSTL.

SDonCC

If WUSTL is to be bashed for "waitlisting well-qualified students," then there are a ton of other schools that would need to be added to this list! There are also a ton of schools that blanket us with mailings, and some of them trumpet their emphasis on environmental sustainability.

DudeDiligence

Translation for virtually everything IG is saying on this thread: I won't rest until everybody sees things my way.

This isn't fight club, you know? Make your point, counsellor, then give it a rest and let the "jury" decide. Some will be more than content to let a school follow its own path (particularly when according to many, said school is successful and a fine place to receive a college education). Others may demand compliance with the way other schools do their business, or cry foul or manipulation about this or that, or just generally argue "overrated." Fine. There is room on the opinion bus for all of us. Thank you in advance for giving others on CC the courtesy and respect to make up their own minds.

hchsch

We are just starting down the college admissions road, but can someone point me to a place we WUSTL's odd addmissions polices are articulated?

heyalb

LOL, they're articulated in pretty much any of interestingguy's posts.

There are also maybe two or three other frustrated posters, like interestingguy, who seem to know way more about WUSTL's admissions policies than they know about how to check out a book at their own library.....or study.....or many other things they could be doing to help themselves and/or others. Interestingguy, in particular, has an axe to grind, although he's been silent on where he goes to school. My guess is he was rejected by WUSTL (and Duke and Columbia, two other schools he frequently bashes). Hence, his posts clearly display his somewhat understandable frustration, although a mature poster with some life experience would have moved on a long time ago.

I see this is your first post....you will quickly learn who proudly belts out dribble.

interestingguy

Yes, because it's irrelevant.


No. I was accepted at both Duke and Columbia and did not apply to WUSTL. Guess again...

interestingguy

I'd appreciate if you don't tell me how and when to post.

interestingguy

No one's "bashing" WUSTL for waitlisting well-qualified students. Many people, including me, criticize WUSTL for accepting LESS qualified students (and waitlisting MORE qualified students) in order to protect yield. It's one thing to waitlist (or reject) well-qualified students and quite another to waitlist (or reject) OVER-qualified students. WUSTL is the new TUFTS!


WUSTL is in a class of its own when it comes to spam mail. No other schools' forums have multiple threads about it. Even WUSTL students admit this.


Sustainability groups question admissions office practices | Student Life

How to advertise the University in the recession | Student Life

Remember those mailings with “the pretty castle”

SDonCC

I still agree with DudeDiligence take on this that Wash U is taking the students that they see as the best fit and that is what alot of schools do. If it's a matter of weeding out students who are throwing an application out there just for the sake of it, that's certainly their perogative. They don't have an essay, so they can't weed them out that way.

Don_Quixote

InterestingGuy - CC college-specific forums are designed for two groups of people. People who have an interest in a school, and people who have some experience (good or bad) with that school. Since you clearly are in neither of these groups, it would be appreciated if you would take your immature and baseless derision elsewhere. Unless you have something to bring to light, there is no evidence for your claims about WashU "gaming" the rankings except for CC-based rumors which crop up every year. There is no need to go through this forum, thread by thread, bashing WashU in every way you can think of. I don't know if you are a troll or not, but either way I hope you will consider the fact that (despite the fact that this is the internet), these forums are intended to retain some basis in objective reality, and as the one with the axe to grind, yours is the responsibility to provide some sort of evidence that WashU admissions are in anyway cheating the system if you wish to make that accusation. If you have no such information, which I highly suspect, please stay out of the forums of any colleges whose merit you have deemed (based on zero experience) to be nonexistent. Thanks.

- hchsch: to my knowledge, there is no basis for the accusations being made in this thread about WashU admissions. It is, of course, entirely likely that demonstrated interest plays a role in the admissions process, but that is hardly a reproachable practice. Among employers and grad schools, which are (hopefully) above being concerned with rankings, WashU has as good a reputation as its statistics would suggest, and there's very little more to the story than that.

-To everyone else: I am not going to argue with interestingguy on a point-by-point basis: Issues like admissions office mailings and the validity of USNWR rankings have very little right to be thrown up off-topic in threads all over the WashU forum as IG is doing. If anyone has actual concerns about things like this (which is hard to tell, since IG is the only one voicing them), please feel free to make a thread on the subject so that it can be debated without detracting from the threads of others. I, and other posters, will be happy to answer whatever questions we can in that setting. Otherwise, I recommend ignoring InterestingGuy, whose posting history I will again link to here, if any of this seems unfair: interestingguy - Posting History