2 Hypothetical Students

ParthivNaresh · 07-09-2012, 02:44 PM

I was looking for some opinions here on chancing two hypothetical students in comparison to each other for top engineering schools, as well as their chances at the schools directly (UCAL Berkeley, MIT, CMU, Cornell, UIllinois-Urbana, UMichigan-Ann Arbor, Georgia Tech):

Student 1:
GPA: 3.44 (unweighted)
Rank: N/A
SAT:2300 (Superscored)
PSAT: 227 (NMS Finalist)
Math II: 800
Physics: 770
Math I: 760
Chemistry:750
8 AP Classes
Leadership in 3 clubs, including founder of 2.
Speaks 3 languages, understands 4.
NHS
Lots of world experience (has traveled extensively)
Lots of volunteering
Student Government
Out of school research in a lab.
Summers are spent mainly at CTY or College camp.
Overall: Does well in school, but not the best, and has a lot of out of school experience.

Student 2:
GPA: 3.90 (unweighted)
Rank: N/A
SAT: 2000 (Superscored)
PSAT: 180
Math II: 790
Chemistry: 800
5 AP Classes
Leadership in 1 club (minor).
Speaks 2 languages, understands 2.
No NHS
Little World Experience
Slightly less volunteering
No Student Government
Summers are spent mainly not doing much and the occasional course.
Overall: Smart kid in school, but doesn't really apply himself outside of school.

ArtsyGirl13 · 07-09-2012, 02:59 PM

For schools like MiT I don't think either would get in. It looks bad that the first student has excellent scores but a low GPA which implies that he is smart but slacks off in school. The second student had great grades but SAT's that don't reflect the grades and his EC's are poor.

ParthivNaresh · 07-09-2012, 09:29 PM

Thank you for your reply. What if the first student has the most rigorous course load, and has shown initiative regarding difficult courses (Self studying, course with Harvard). What if the second student managed to get his SAT up by around 50 - 70 or so points? And what do you think the chances are for CMU, Berkeley, Columbia, and Georgia Tech?

ArtsyGirl13 · 07-09-2012, 10:49 PM

I still don't think the first student would have a very realistic shot. Rigorous courses are expected at top schools, the GPA's top 50 schools report are usually the GPA in honors/AP classes. Without at least a 3.75 (probably should be closer to a 3.8) the student will have a shot because of rigor, but it will be a very slim shot. Pulling a 3.6/7 is very realistic in honors.

Again EC's are too important at top schools. So with higher SAT's it would not really make a difference. When I toured one competitive college they talked about how they regularly reject perfect scores because the applicant was not an overall strong canidate.

Both would have a shot at CMU, though not a good shot, probably no for Berkeley, no for sure for Columbia and I don't know enough about Georgia Tech to comment on it.

ParthivNaresh · 07-10-2012, 11:54 AM

Good point. However, would the chances increase slightly if the first one was applying directly to the SEAS at Columbia, which has a higher acceptance rate, and he were applying ED? And he took a summer course there, with a great letter of rec. from a professor?

csdad · 07-10-2012, 12:01 PM

Difficult to determine without 1) Knowing if they took "the most rigorous course load available to them" 2) Class rank.

ketone · 07-10-2012, 02:37 PM

If you're talking about the Columbia summer session, that program is a joke to colleges. In fact, if you went to a program like that (charges ~$10,000 for a 3 week course), that will actually lower your chances. That program admits anyone who can pay.

DO NOT, DO NOT submit the letter of rec. from Columbia summer session. I'm actually laughing at you right now.

ArtsyGirl13 · 07-10-2012, 05:40 PM

No, it would not really change anything. Without a 3.8 even ED, they don't really have a shot at getting in.

Bill73 · 07-10-2012, 07:04 PM

Honestly, with a 2300 SAT score, you're going to get into a good engineering school. It might not be MIT, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to go to a state school like Georgia Tech, Illinois, etc. I know people from those two schools that did very well in undergrad, and they both got into some high profile PhD programs (Cal Tech, Berkeley).

ketone · 07-12-2012, 02:36 AM

Lol a 2300 is not that great. I have a 2300 and I consider It the weakest part of my application

experientiadocet · 07-12-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Lol a 2300 is not that great. I have a 2300 and I consider It the weakest part of my application

Confirmed for Asian

It's difficult to say how either of these students would fare, largely because you did not provide class ranks/info about their schools. What if Student #1 attends a prestigious private school, the type where 4.0s are unheard of, and he has good standing? That's totally different from a 3.44 from a typical public school.

I'll assume you're thinking both are from the latter type of school. Student #1 has odds for the last three and CMU, but probably not the rest. A 3.44 is unimpressive for any Ivy or college of similar tier. If he's applying ED to Columbia with a great rec letter from a professor there, well, he may have a shot, but in a sense it makes you wonder even more why he couldn't at least pull a 3.5.

Student #2 has even worse odds, and no, a boost of 50 or so to his SAT will not do anything for him. Michigan might happen, UIUC might happen... but he may as well not bother applying anywhere much more selective.

Divy1234 · 07-12-2012, 06:55 AM

@ketone, you are sounded very pompous and to an extent are showing how unknowledgeable about the process you are. A 2300 is not a bad score, I'm honestly laughing at you right now for even stating that. Ivy league schools have 75% and higher where the 2300's are. Is it the most important part of the application? No. Will it walk anyone through the door? No. But to say it is a bad score, or a weak part of an application is absolutely ridiculous. You sound like a fool.

ParthivNaresh · 07-12-2012, 10:43 AM

Thank you everyone (minus ketone) for your comments and suggestions. Unfortunately, there is no rank, because the school doesn't rank. If it helps at all, it is difficult to get a 4.0 GPA at this school.

ArtsyGirl13 · 07-12-2012, 01:01 PM

I feel like difficult is subjective. For example at my school math is extremely difficult (art teachers are beyond tough/we have a screwed up grading system) and A's are almost unheard of in honors/AP math classes, but that probably won't change the fact that my B in math looks bad on my transcript. i agree that even at a difficult school they should of had at least a 3.5 (especially thanks to grade inflation due to gym/electives), probably closer to a 3.75.

ParthivNaresh · 07-12-2012, 01:59 PM

@ArtsyGirl13 - "Difficult" is definitely a subjective term. BC Calc in this school (depending on your teacher), is the hardest course (with the possible exception of Physics C). Gym here does not count towards your GPA. For the first student, he had a 3.6 UW Junior year, which is the most important year, and sophomore year dragged the grade down a little because of health reasons/Harvard college course.