can more graduated seniors do "actual results" threads?

[SuperMom_I_Aint]

My D does work. She works at going to school. She's compensated on performance. She gets weekly $$ for sustained performance, and regular "bonuses" based on periodic evaluations (report cards). Her bonus is paid on a sliding scale basis: A's - $20, B's - $10, etc. And yes - B's and C's are allowed. A D will get you grounded. But, well, -- that's only really happened in gym. Once. She gets "special cash awards" for stuff like, I dunno . . . winning a state championship, or landing a national merit nod.

As long as she keeps a competitive GPA, we won't require her to work. And we pay, not an exorbitant amount, but too little for her to get hooked on drugs, and enough for her to handle a modest social life.

Unlike SuperStudent who breezes through AP classes like . . . I dunno . . . Pacman at Burger King(?) -- she does about 5 hours of homework each night -- after handling various administrative tasks for the dozen or so ECs in which she's active. She does well -- because she tries harder.

Major props to kids who work and go to school. I did so beginning at age 14. But it's no more polite to disparage the student who has never held a job, than it is to deride the student with an SAT score below 2000 who works two+ jobs.

Geez people. Ever hear of a little word called "diversity"? To each his own! Every kid actively participating CC is extraordinary for their discretionary effort already.

I was gonna say "live and let live" -- but it just seemed so cliched . . .

[asdfjkl1]

Damn, I wish my parents did that.

[SuperMom_I_Aint]

Hey aren't you supposed to be at school?? :-)

[fhimas88888888]

Damn, I wish my parents did that.

No, I really don't think you do. Rewarding students for good grades with cash payments only reinforces the pervasive culture of self-entitlement. When SuperMom's daughter gets As, she expects a cash payment, and probably doesn't feel the satisfaction of mastering the material... because if she did, she wouldn't need or even want the cash payment. Furthermore, it's likely that SuperMom_I_Aint's daughter will grow up expecting compensation for all her work throughout her career, even when it isn't deserved. What is going to happen when she is looking for a lab position in her undergrad time, and is assigned a job of cleaning up beakers? This job isn't fun and certainly isn't the kind of reward with which she grew up in high school! Without such rewards in high school, it's likely she would understand that this tedious job is a necessary step (paying ones dues) on the path to doing more complex tasks. She would be pleased with her work, mindless as it may be, because it leads her to a more exciting place (very much like how good grades lead students to nice colleges). I think SuperMom_I_Aint is doing her daughter no favors. Though I certainly don't know SuperMom's daughter personally, I firmly believe this practice is fundamentally wrong.

Students should understand the intrinsic value of their grades, and not the pecuniary value associated with them. Though we all work to land a decent job, (IMHO) not even college is a time to become consumed by getting a job. Though there are some fantastic pre-professional schools out there, I firmly believe that college is a time for learning and exploration. All students should have some kind of idea of what they're going to do after college, but that shouldn't drive their choices.

[lkf725]

As, she expects a cash payment, and probably doesn't feel the satisfaction of mastering the material... because if she did, she wouldn't need or even want the cash payment.

No, I disagree. Most kids (mine included) are always happy to have a few extra bucks for any reason at all. While they would not study exclusively to get the money, it's always nice to have and they would not reject the offer.

[asdfjkl1]

I don't get allowance or anything so I just a bit jealous of that. But that is an interesting point that fhimas mentioned. I mean, for me, my parents have been happy because my grades are above 65. More than passing. I think that teaching a child the value of getting their grades on their own works a bit better..personally. But, whatever works for you and your daughter, Supermom. If anything, I think it's more effective to just maybe reward a kid (randomly) for their grades. I mean, I did well on my SAT II and my dad helped me purchase something. I wanted to do well personally and the gift was just a bonus for me. I don't know her daughter and whether she wants the grades--or the money but if you're not expecting anything, it makes it way better. =]

Nope, I don't have school today.

[SuperMom_I_Aint]

<<What is going to happen when she is looking for a lab position in her undergrad time, and is assigned a job of cleaning up beakers? >>

Hot dog! Of COURSE we wouldn't want her to miss out on an opportunity like THAT! Good thing she's had all that experience emptying trash, washing dishes, dusting, vacuuming, cooking, lawn-mowing, leaf-raking, snow-blowing, room-painting, lightbulb-changing and all that OTHER stuff that goes into making life go on -- without compensation. Gee, I hope she's acquired sufficient humility, hand-eye coordination, and ohhhh. . perhaps, COMMON SENSE to understand grunt work and paying dues.

Or perhaps we're under the impression that grades are these kids' only accomplishments and that they arrived at all other benefits (EC leadership roles) by spontaneous good luck?

Let's be honest. As adults, we ARE compensated for a job well done. That's what pay increases, tips, bonuses and commissions are for. If we're not recognized for the job we're doing, we increase our output. If that doesn't work, we walk. Everyone wants to feel pride in their work -- but pride doesn't feed an empty stomach. What parents who pay for grades are teaching is: You get what you earn. Doncha just LOVE the American way?

p.s. asdfjkl1 (why the "1"? That breaks the series?) -- good point about the random reward system. My youngest D will "love" you for upsetting her anticipated gravy train as we test this new method on her. She's in 9th, and doesn't seem to be responding quite as well to the existing reward system (A's in gym, our first "F" ever (Yikes!) in an academic).

[chickenboi8008]

lawdy i wish more normal people would do actual results..... -.-

[asdfjkl1]

the 1 is because someone took asdjfkl(can't use the comma) and the asdf. So, I had to settle. It's still 1. lol.

I'm in AP Psych and actually the random ratio/interval is one of the most effective ways for learning within operant conditioning. That's why it works so well...(There's even science to it!) Just learned that semi-recently. Aww, I sorta feel badly for your daughter. But, I mean, she's been expecting those grades but the problem is that once she realizes that she can still make whatever amount of money on her report card, she might not care anymore. (That's why fixed interval and ratio conditioning doesn't work as well and variable interval/ratio.)

Hopefully, it will help her in the long run. When you work hard and don't expect anything--and get something, it makes it so much more satisfying to get something. I mean, it applies so much more in life. For a club I'm part of, there's a position of leadership given out to exclusive members of the club. I wasn't really vying for it because I knew others really wanted it. But, I did get it because of my involvement/achievement in the club and it was really satisfying. Maybe in the long-term, she'll see the benefits...or not. lol. Good luck with your daughter and her grades!

[smashedIT]

Accepted - Ohio State University: Columbus Campus, Auburn University, Ohio University, University of Alabama, Temple University, Ohio University.
Rejected - Penn State University: University Park, Virginia Tech University.

GPA - 3.1
SAT I - 1240/1740; Math: 620, CR: 620.

ECs:
Varsity Soccer
Varsity Track
200+ Volunteer hours @ Good Shepherd: Rehabilitation Center
Intramural Basketball
Spanish Club
Key Club

Recs:
Ohio State - I sent in 3 recs, 1 from an associate professor at the OSU medical center, 1 from an OSU alumni, and another from my college alg teacher.
Auburn - A CEO of a multimillion business, who donates 50k+ per/year to the University sent in a rec.

[hope2budel]

so far....W/ A 550 CR 550 Writing and 510 MATH and a 4.2 weighted GPA...

ACCEPTED
James Madison
Penn State-Main
Arcadia
Indiana University

REJECTED
Pitt

[poqriver]

accepted: MIT (ea)
waiting on: harvard

sat:
M:800
R:660
W:710

sat II:
m2:800
physics:790

gpa: uw: 3.98 w: 4.69
rank: 1/315

8th in va for golf
2nd in my region for golf
1st in my district for golf
recruited for golf at mit
president of math honors society
volunteer as calculus tutor

[rade88]

nothing really exciting since im waiting but thought ppl might wanna see

Results:
Accepted- Penn State- Scholars Program (didnt apply for honors, dont know why)
Maryland (Honors)
Hofstra (Honors/Leap) $18K/year
Drexel $18K/year Honors + Law program
Pitt $8 k/year Honors + Law program
Northeastern Honors Program $16K/year **might be going**

Rejected- Columbia ED =[

Waiting:
Duke (had a great interview), Cornell, Tufts

Stats: White Suburban Male
Rank 24/519 GPA 4.96 W 4.27/4.33 UW (Weird I know)
SAT: CR 700/ M 730/ WR 690 12 ESSAY (1430/2120)
SAT II: Spanish w/ Listening 620, US History 640 (I suck =[)
Taking 5 AP's Senior Year and so 7 total in high school with 4's in Calc AB and European History
Captain of Cross Country and Varsity Swimming. Did XC for 3 years and Swimming for 4. Did Track for two years
Had leadership for Film Club and Academic Team which I did both for 4 years. In a few other clubs (Key Club, Spanish Club, Student Gov)

Work 20ish hours a week. Can't judge my own essays and dont know how my recs were (good I guess)

[asdfjkl1]

Wow poqriver, you were recruited for golf!? That's really cool.

Are you a professional golfer or something?

[kingkouture]

Accepted: Hamilton College (ED II)
Deferred: Georgetown SFS (EA) (Georgetown can shove it)
Withdrawn Applications: Dartmouth, Bowdoin, Tufts, Middlebury, Colgate, Vassar, Dickinson, Georgetown, UBC, McGill

Poor White Guy, Portland, OR
GPA: 4.0 UW / 4.9 or so W
Rank: Valedictorian
SAT: 2160
ACT: 30
ECs: Classical piano, church group, Habitat for Humanity, school newspaper, constitutional law team
Awards, etc: Excellence in Chemistry, Valedictorian, Summa Cum Laude (Nat. Latin Exam), article published in Alaska Airlines magazine
Work: Preschool teacher, 20ish hours a week
Essays/Recs: Pretty good
Hook: geographical diversity? I dunno...

I guess my results were pretty much to be expected-- nothing too surprising. I'm super excited about Ham though!