100%Tuna

Refer to the above!

Puddly

When they say "well-rounded," they don't mean that you dabble in everything. They mean that you do things other than study.

And can you not read? People have already said that there is no guarantee, so no, you're not in. Move on. kthxbai

100%Tuna

well... thanks for letting me know, my puddly-friend... but just to make sure i dun't end up calling myself and my life a puddle; i like to take opinions from those who are better acquainted with the system and improve my chances... i guess your strategy would be to get straights Es and join some lame EC, cuz of cos there's no guarantee, right? well... the thing, which i've inferred is that BECAUSE there is no well-defined-pattern of selection, gathering as much advice as you can and thinking about it, and then choosing to or not to act on it is a better idea than to well, fall into puddles... So guess what, even an impatient, bluntly rude person taught me the meaning of "well rounded" in the US admissions sense of the word... which makes me believe that CC and these forums actually do help... i am trying to "move on" to a good univ, which is why i'm asking questions, seeking suggestions et al... if you are particularly affected by such behavior, i suggest ya "move on" to other threads where people can "read" the dunno-what-kthxbai-thing you've written in the end... so yeah... looking forward to constructive advice and criticism and chances from others... and well, a more understanding ol' Puddly!

100%Tuna

bump bump bump

UphillBattle

Massachusetts Institute of Technology - Reject/ Huge reach
University of California, Berkeley - Low Reach
Stanford University - Reject/ Huge reach
California Institute of Technology - Wouldn't know
Brown University -- Pretty high reach
Carnegie Mellon University -- High match? not sure
Georgia Institute of Technology -- wouldn't know
Princeton University -- High Reach
Harvard University -- High Reach
University of California, Los Angeles -- Match
University of Illinois -- In
Cornell University -- Reach
Purdue University -- not sure, probably in
Yale University -- High Reach
University of Chicago -- really depends, write killer essays
Duke University -- Reach
University of Pennsylvania -- Pretty high reach
Columbia University -- High reach

Research schools like UMich, Rice, Tufts etc.

UphillBattle

I have another thing to say as well thats just a personal opinion. Judging from your other posts (i think i've seen your "Indian studying in Singapore" chances threads in just about every ivy forum) I think you're applying to these schools for all the wrong reasons. Applying to top schools should be more about where you fit in and what you want in a college rather than what the "ivy" brand name means to the world. Dartmouth (which you had a chance thread in a week or so ago but seems to have disappeared off your list) and Caltech are such vastly different schools on so many levels that I would like to know your reasons for applying to both.

When you ask the question, "what should I do to get into these schools?" it shouldn't be about doing specific things that you are just doing to make yourself seem more impressive; It should be more about furthering your own specific interests to a deeper level so that you really stand out as a committed student. To get into a top school you need to know what you enjoy doing (outside academics) and focus to work really hard on those handful of things instead of just having a mash of a thousand different extra curricular things you have done at a purely superficial level to 'bulk up' your resume. I personally feel you're doing the latter and it's really not going to get you anywhere in the end. I'd love to hear your take on this and why you're really applying to these schools.

100%Tuna

well... uphillbattle, thanks for looking at my posts in detail, really appreciate it; the thing is, i'm rather new to US admissions... all i did in the past 4 years wasn't intended to furnish me with a great curriculum vitae but things i enjoy doing... community service, drama, students' council, cricket and math are really things i'm very passionate about... i know i stretched myself like crazy trying to do well in all of them; and did achieve rather a lot in each; but now when I list them, I do agree, they do look like a i-did-everything-cuz-i-wanna-get-into-the-ivies laundry list... soo, i just want to know how to get the apparent focus required... Becuz in reality, i was focused on each one of them which is why I was voted VP of the Students' Council of an institution of 3000+ students, why I won prizes at the Singapore Youth Festival etc. etc. and why I have actually done 2000+ hours of unaccounted for community service (mostly in india). So, is there any way to show that there was not one, but a few things i was passionate about and i made sure that i worked on each other, by managing my time and life properly... soo... that's the actual meaning of "what i should do". Also, what I was looking for was exact answers; like some global competitions (relating to what i'm passionate about, of cos) which I could participate in... cuz... except for the math and NASA, all my achievements are primarily restricted to SE Asia or India...

About applying to the top schools, i admit, i am guilty of just going for the name value; as i mentioned before, i am absolutely now to the US admission system and US universities etc. etc. and to be frank, when I first posted and even now, am pretty much unsure of how each university is... my intention in just naming the top univs was that if my application is good enough for them, doesn't it automatically satisfy the lower universities (overall) but awesome in their own right... Also, i feel that it is a bit late for me to know each univ individually, with my A-Levels coming up soon; soo i thought applying wouldn't be exactly a bad idea, and choosing outta the best later (after getting admission) works out... and yeah... i don't exactly know, but my parents refuse to send me to US unless i get admitted to a top-notch-university which leaves ya open-mouthed (namely, HYPSM)... cuz, well NUS, the local university in Singapore ain't very bad either... sooo, that's why i decided to name all the "ranked" universities...

thanks a lot for the post, really really thankful for it... any suggestions now...? (and ermm... how exactly do ya make yer chances higher to reach a high-reach? )

and just a random question... how do you attach your EC list to the apps...?

thanks a lot for everything, guys! others... so many views, so few replies? c'mon... a few words won't hurt!!

UphillBattle

K i'm really glad you enjoy doing the things you put on your CV and I can definitely see you've stretched yourself. Yep it's definitely hard to get to know the universities on as good a level as people who have visited/live in the US do, (i'm an international as well I would know).

Yep I have to admit I applied to Harvard and Yale as well and of course the name value came into play though I only applied to those two out of the really top tier universities in the US as I thought I would fit in well in those two places. You have to remember though that these universities are incredibly selective and even if you are academically perfect they may choose someone over you simply for the fact that the other person plays the oboe and they need an oboist for their orchestra. These schools are so highly regarded and desired that they have the liberty of sculpting their incoming class with such minute details so admission chances really come down to arbitrary things like that (as someone said before in this thread). Those sorts of arbitrary factors you can't really find ways around. To give another example, I remember seeing a school that this year will probably only be accepting females off the waitlist. That's probably a hard arbitrary factor to overcome no matter how hard you try to express your interest and send in recommendations.

US admissions tend to place emphasis on essays (especially schools like UChicago) and you really should use that to your advantage. Use your essay to show how much you really enjoy the things you put on your CV by expanding on an anecdote etc. But make sure you make it relevant and honest.

In terms of EC list, I would say the Brown University application is an excellent place to start. It doesn't just have a list of rectangles to fill with activity names and boxes to check for how many years and how many hours a year you have done them. Instead it has a separate question as part of the application which asks you to prepare an organised document with awards and extracurriculars laid out in whatever format you please, but generally in order of importance to you. I think this is a great starting point for you to really list all your achievements/EC's/awards in terms of their importance to you under general bullet points (eg. Sport (Tennis)) and see which areas you have really contributed extensively to.

Sorry for the extremely long post, but I hope it helps

Sidfromaus

that's very well written UphillBattle. btw, i m glad that you are the second person who shares the same opinions on the OP's evaluation.
being an international is so disadvantaged...i was weeping about it all of last year.

tetrisfan

I'd just like to tell you some things -

1. For a moment, close your eyes and imagine that all the schools on your list are totally unknown. Would you still want to go to them? If your answer is a resounding 'no' for a few places, scratch them off your list.

2. You don't really need an American safety - NUS is like a done deal for you . But, you don't need such a massive list either! Are you sure you want to apply to both Caltech and Brown? One is heavily lopsided, the other has the open curriculum which is meant for those who like to dabble around. Do you really want to apply to both Columbia/UPenn and Dartmouth? Columpia and Penn are in bustling metropolises, Dartmouth is in a little hamlet!

Use the Counselor-O-Matic at princetonreview.com, that will evaluate what you'd really like in a university and present you with the universities which you'd like the most (under the 'Reach Schools' section of the results).

3. I'm an Indian citizen too (albeit a class of 2014-er), and let me tell you, you'll be facing STIFF competition, especially since you need aid. As you probably know, India has denizens of overachievers.

Your main advantage is the fact that you're extremely well-involved in extracurriculars. HOWEVER, dumping all your activities on the Common App wouldn't be advisable (actually, it wouldn't be possible - you have only 7 slots). Instead of typing out all 10+ activities in the resume which you will attach, elaborate on those 7 major activities which you will list on the Common App, and perhaps add one or two more activities. Also, clump related activities together. That will add a certain amount of focus to your activities. The key fact to keep in mind is that universities prefer depth over breadth.

Hope this helps!

UphillBattle

thanks Sidfromaus and yep being an international and, in my case, an ORM is really a disadvantage.
Oh and by the way in case you couldn't find the extracurricular question here it is, I saved a copy of my Brown app on PDF from last year. I really think it's a helpful question to complete early in the application process, and not only for kids like 100%Tuna applying to ivies + top schools but anyone in the US admissions process to prioritize their EC's.

"Please tell us, roughly in order of their importance to you and in the space provided, those individual activities and awards which you believe best represent your greatest achievements and interests. Tell us approximately how many hours per week each activity entails. You may want to consider drawing upon the following areas in compiling your individual list of activities:

>Frequent contributor (years of participation/offices held)
>Athletic teams (varsity letters, include times/statistics if you want)
>Community activities (volunteer, religious youth groups, cultural orgs, tutorial programs.
>Creative work/ Hobbies
>Prizes, honors, special recognitions (scholastic, athletic, literary, musical artistic etc.)
>Travel or other rewarding experiences"

Btw only the first bit is word for word, the bullet points are summarised, (blame the fact that you can't copy-paste from a PDF)

Note how they say the EC's "you believe best represent your greatest achievements and interests". I think this is really important for you to figure out, remember you're not going to list every single thing you've done on here.

100%Tuna

Thanks a lot, guys for taking the time out and answering!

tetrisfan: (btw... i oso think tetris is friggin' cool) what i had thought was that i'll like appky everywhere... US, UK, Singapore, probably even try for indian schools, and later, after the acceptances (and not rejections, i hope) come in; i choose from the ones who think that i fit in... so yeah... that was the reasoning behind the 18 i had chosen... but do ya guys think it might be inimical for me to like apply to too many places?
and yeah... abt financial aid, i was really wondering whether it makes a HUGE difference in chances... cuz if it does, i am considering not applying for financial aid and look into private work-plans with different companies...
and yeah... btw... thanks for the counselor-o-matic thing... din't know about it... will try it out soon!

Sid: well... hahahaha... i'm weeping about it this year... life would be sooo much easier as a local student! but it's more satisfying to get in when it's harder, right...? so yeah... i guess the best is to persevere... and hope what the schools are looking for a cricketer and not an oboe player... lol!

Uphillbattle: thanks a ton for all that help and that long and very informative post! Thanks for the question... i guess it'll help in early apps planning!

Well... thanks a lot everyone for the overwhelming response... it's great to see how people advice and help each other on CC... it's like a life-saver for a US-admission-noob like me! haha... and yeah... please let the chances coming... though it might not change my destiny... but it let's me know where i stand... cuz... trust me... half my friends here in singapore can't even spell Massachusetts... which goes on to show how less we know here abt how admissions and univs work... thanks again... and keep 'em coming!

tetrisfan

Hey.

Financial aid makes a huge difference at all the colleges except HYPM, Amherst, Williams, Dartmouth and Middlebury. However, loading yourself up with loans and a ****load of debt after graduation isn't exactly advisable either...

The problem with applying to 18 is that you probably won't be able to completely devote yourself to each application, and not doing that will definitely not help your chances at that school - who wants to accept a half-hearted applicant? It's doable though; it's definitely possible to completely devote yourself to each application - provided that you start extremely early (as in start your essays ASAP) because you'll end up suffering from a burnout if you put everything off till December. Also, you definitely won't be able to carve a perfect niche for yourself at each of those 18 colleges (refer to the examples I provided in my previous post)...that's why I recommended the Counselor-O-Matic.

BTW, why aren't you looking into liberal arts colleges? They're some of the best places to receive an undergraduate education, IMO. Unless you're looking to study engineering, because most LAC's don't offer engineering (but you can study engineering at Harvey Mudd and Swarthmore - two brilliant, brilliant colleges).

tetrisfan

Also, I'm assuming that you plan on going for a Masters/PhD later on. These programs look very favourably upon a LAC education (ie. you won't be disadvantaged AT ALL), so yeah...

100%Tuna

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