rrrsmom

I have finally decided to join this discussion. My son has just about perfect SAT scores, was ranked number 1 in his class of over 600, has played 2 varsity sports, spent last summer doing scientific research at Columbia University, has glowing recommendations and was waitlisted. This has always been his first choice of schools and he regrets not applying early decision. He didn't apply early decision because he was also trying for merit scholarships at less competitive schools. Now he has one of those scholarships but is still hoping to get called off the waitlist.

nceph

rrrsmom - I hope your son has conveyed his continued strong interest to the admissions office. He may be one of those kids that admissions assumed would have lots of choices and choose to go elsewhere, so it could help him to let admissions know that Williams is his first choice. Best of luck to him.

mythmom

My S is from affluent suburban LI HS, admittedly Suffolk, not Nassau, and was admitted to Williams without any athletics whatsoever. He never met a ball he liked, nor does he like anything that involves scores. He is incredibly fit, though, though his application certainly couldn't reveal that.

He did not quite break 2200, though he did get 34 on the ACT. Two other kids from his school have gone to Williams and a kid from the neighboring school was accepted without any athletic EC's at all. She was rejected from Amherst but accepted at Swat and Haverford.

Data point: S was accepted at UofC and off the wait list at Brown but rejected at Dartmouth. Also accepted at Wesleyan and Vassar, wait listed at Amherst but did not accept spot so we don't know if acceptance would have been forthcoming.

He loves it at Williams; was his first choice school. He does not feel overwhelmed by the athletic atmosphere at all, and his friends are not athletes and there are many guys who aren't.

He has found a group of like minded kids.

He did get into the Williams-Amherst football game but that was the extent of his sports consciousness except for the broom ball league he was in. (They go to the ice rink at night in their sneakers and take a stick with a rubber end and shove a puck around. They fall and slide and it's a yak.)

So I don't think it is true at all that Williams just selected for athletes. They look for kids who are going to add to the community. The kids are very smart, but more importantly, they are very participatory, which S definitely is, just not in sports.

rrrsmom

mythmom I was not trying to imply that my son's atheletic ability should have opened the doors for him. He was hoping to be able to play club sports, not varsity, but also to finally have the opportunity to get involved in many other things like writing for example, for the newspaper, clubs that he did not have the time to join because of hs sports.

speedo

I am familar with the way the system works at another top
five LAC but I don't know about nescac. At School X, the
team receives a printout after the initial app review that
indicates at what level the candidate is. Sure admits, probables
possibles and denies. The coach has half a dozen or so "tips"
for the probables only a couple for the "possibles" and of course
doesn't waste any on the others. The "tips" on the possibles
are almost always used ED, and the goal is to bring in as many
recruits as possible ED. But at school X, the coach has no input
into the "banding", there is no SAT score limit as has been
suggested on this thread for nescac. Sometimes a kid who
looks like a sure bet gets straight rejected - there may already
be too many admits from his/her particular school, or a kid
with 1200's in the SAT and not particularly good grades is marked
as a sure admit - often a urm. So the coach has to take every
kid seriously at least till the printout comes back.

I was interested in the process at nescac, although I suspect it
may be different at all the schools.

mythmom

rrrsmom: I was not answering you, but a poster on a previous page who said that no one from LI gets into Williams unless they're an athlete.

Your situation is frustrating and you have my full support and crossed fingers. Your S sounds amazing. How you contacted your regional rep? I think that's the only way to make any impact getting off wait lists.

purplegirl

I know that kids get in that are not athletic tips but what I said was that I have yet to meet someone from our area that got into Williams for another reason and this is not unique as I said for Williams in our area. Sports on the north shore of Long Island are well known by these schools. Kids like my D who is val., great SATS, music EC galore, science research at a prestigious institute doesn't offer anything above like diversity or sports. These top LAC's and IVIES have too many applicants like my D from this area, so competition is tough. It is heartbreaking as a parent to see a great kid, who has done everything right still get rejected from a school she liked. Luckily, the kids do better than the parents in taking the rejections. As I said, we have witnessed this so much in our area, that my D was well prepared and only applied to the top schools she could see herself at, and whatever happens, happens. She is happily going to a great school, with lots of merit money! To the kids, keep up the great work, don't take college admission results personally.

icantfindaname

Chech here for admission guidelines for athletes and others.



Academic Ranks EphBlog

icantfindaname

Purplegirl you eloquently describe the inherent difficulties of getting one of the precious few spots at an elite LAC, or Ivy. For my first child we knew that Ivy or Little Ivy was a long shot. Like any parent I think that child 1 would have fit in and flourished at any school except maybe Cal Tech or MIT. A good athlete, but not good enough, a good student, but not good enough. No legacy at any rarified institution and yet not first generation (we have advanced degrees but from state schools). No buildings at any schools with our name on them. Child 1 applied early decision (to increase the odds) to a top ranked flagship state and is very happy. Child two, a recruited athlete, 2240, 4.4 weighted, and happy as a clam at Williams. I would like to think that child two would have been accepted without athletics but who knows. In our public high school in an affluent town near NYC the stats are more or less what you describe. Mostly athletes, but not exclusively, who are also great students get in the "best" schools. And it is only going to get tougher. When they take a limited number of students from a particular geographic, there are legacies that are well qualified at the private schools, maybe also athletes, or artists, or oboe players, maybe development candidates, or big donors. As the schools increase their reach to first generation students, URM candidates (programs like Questbridge), foreign students, economically disadvantaged, the spots get harder to acquire, and it seems that change is permanent. Our high school admits behind closed doors that they have no real clout in the admission process. What clout they have they guard jealously. They limit access to AP classes, to sports teams, performing arts (it is a school of 3000 but only has the same number of spots in these types of endeavors that a typical school of 1500 would have, they operate it as a number of divisions with 5 times the number of administrators and support staff but no increase in the number of opportunities for the students). I guess what I wanted to say was I do not think that schools like Williams are being disingenuous. The demand is overwhelming and increasingly so in a global society.

interesteddad

Folks, the reason it "feels" like only athletes are accepted to Williams from affluent white neighborhoods is simple: demographics.

First, only 60 of each 100 freshmen at Williams are white, US citizens.

Second, about 30 of each 100 freshmen at Williams are recruited athletes ("likely 4-year varsity athletes at Williams).

Third, recruited athletes at elite DIV III colleges are almost exclusively white and mostly from affluent prep and high schools

Combine these three bits of demographics together (60 whites, 30 athletes almost all white) and you can see that close to 1 out of ever 2 white freshmen at Williams is a recruited athlete. Factor in the gender imbalance from ice hockey and football and it's even more striking for men. More than 1 out of every 2 white male freshmen at Williams is a recruited athlete.

So, if you are a white, non-athlete, from the northeast that is already so over-represented, you can see how it feels like slim pickins.

mythmom

But we are from the North Shore of Long Island. And have an incredibly affluent community. And DS did get accepted. And he is white. And not an athlete.

purplegirl: I do think it is much harder for girls (I have a D, too) so I understand your frustration, but the info. is just not correct. The other young woman I know who was accepted is also from famous, affluent school district and not an athlete. Both on LI North Shore.

My D applied to Barnard to reduce the competition from the boys and was accepted. So I do know of what you are speaking, and I am sure your D was more than qualified and a wonderful candidate.

icantfindaname

Purplegirl. I guess what the poster is saying is that her son and the other young women she knows that were accepted at Williams were better canditates that your child. Maybe true, but kinda well sorta blunt. Either way your child sounds wonderful and I am certain will have a great college experience. Only part of the puzzle is where you start the important part is where you end up.

purplegirl

I don't think mythmom meant to imply that her child is better. Her posts made me take my D to see Williams even though I knew what has happened in the past and odds were against her. It's a nice school and unfortunately, she liked it. After we visited, she said it was the first school she saw that reminded her of Bucknell where she will be attending. I'm just telling you what has happened to our kids at our school over the years. Even our guidance counselors are baffled why some schools just don't take our kids while UPenn, Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, etc. and other competitive schools take a mix of our bright kids but never Williams. I think after my D and the sal. didn't get in, ( they thought at least 1 might get in or even waitlisted) just says it all. My daughter was attracted to the LAC schools, so the final choice of where she applied was hers. Just to make her feel like she wasn't a total reject she did get waitlisted at Amherst and Princeton despite the odds It's just reality for us but know that our kids don't offer that ethnic/diversity edge in this competitive admissions process. Glad to hear some long island kids got in on their own merit but that's not what I've seen. I'm not even sure why I'm still reading this Williams forum! Got to get off before I stir more trouble.

icantfindaname

My childs two best friends in high school are attending Bucknell and they love it. I agree with you that the logic of admission is hard to figure out. No one from the local HS has been admitted to Amherst in 10 years and last year 8 of the 10 that got into Ivy's were athletes 1 was a legacy, and I think we are the richest zip code the tri-state area (for whatever that means). However it is more than a stretch to try and argue that Williams does not have an athletic bent to it. They have won the Directors Cup awarded to the top athletic school in division III for 9 years running, sort of like Stanford, which has won it in division I for I think 15 years in a row. Something like 50% of students play a varsity sport, at most schools depending on size it is more like 20% or less. There is of course 50% of the student body who do not and they bring many talents to the mix to form the community. Go Bisons.

mythmom

Oh dear.

I was not saying S was more qualified than purplegirl's D. Probably less. I can't account for Williams. Just trying to keep an accurate record. I did not mean to be insensitive.

purplegirl's D sounds like a most amazing student that any college should be proud to have as a student. I was not saying my S was more qualified, nor do I believe it in any way.

It may be because he's a serious musician and their site said they were looking for musicians. That's one reason we focused in on it because we thought he'd have an admissions advantage. And maybe he did. Or maybe just because he's a boy. Or because they like the girl from our HS who is now a junior, was the Val, and now attends.

For the record, unlike purplegirl's brilliant D, DS was not val or sal or in the top five at all and is not an athlete.