sat scores at williams - time magazine article - Page 4

momrath · 05-13-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Something like 50% of students play a varsity sport, at most schools depending on size it is more like 20% or less.

icant, Maybe 50% are involved in some kind of sport or athletic endeavor but the varsity number is more like 30%. Does anyone have the real figure?

Percentages can be misleading. All LACs have team sports -- most have 20-22 teams, and most athletes play only one sport so it adds up. It therefore stands to reason that the smaller the student body the greater the percentage of varsity athletes.

Taking a random headcount of ten of my son's friends -- 5 male, 5 female -- who are white and middle class, 3 participated in varsity sports. I know one was recruited (she exceled in an unusual track event). The others were physically active but not involved in team sports -- club soccer, trekking, sailing, horsebackriding, skiing --and plenty of broomball.

I don't deny that sports and physical activities of some sort are an important part of life at Williams; but I would argue that being a varsity athlete is any better than any one of several admissions hooks. Most kids we know had more than one.

onemoremom · 05-13-2008, 08:36 PM

"Something like 50% of students play a varsity sport"

It's actually about a third of the students that play varsity sports at Williams (at NESCACs with smaller enrollments but the same # of sports, it's more).

When you consider all the additional ephs who participate in one form or another of athletics at the jv, club and intramural levels, it then approaches 50%. This may also have something to do with the PE requirement, which can be satisfied by participating in one or more of the many club sports offered.

icantfindaname · 05-13-2008, 08:53 PM

I should have said participate in sports at the varsity or club or intermurals level. Sorry. In terms of the athletic focus which I still believe achieves an excellent balance with other interests. I saw a number somewhere on the Williams site that 200 students letter in two sports and 40 in three.

"To Morton O. Schapiro, the president of Williams College, it's simple: "If you're a really smart kid, and you're serious about athletics, you'd be nuts not to think about Williams."
"We compare ourselves to being the Stanford of Division III," says Mr. Farley, who was an assistant coach for 15 years before taking over the football program, and also coaches outdoor track. "We've got kind of a watered-down version here."

interesteddad · 05-13-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Does anyone have the real figure?

The number is reported to the government Office of Post-secondary Education each year. For 2006-07, the unduplicated count of varsity athletes (i.e. only counting each student once, even if they play on more than one team):

Men: 39%
Women: 32%
Overall: 35%

This doesn't include JV teams.

williamsalum · 05-19-2008, 10:59 PM

I recently stumbled upon this site and this particular thread. I am a Williams graduate from the late 1970s and one of many concerned alumni who are not pleased with the direction Williams has evolved. This was always a college known for its "preppy-scholar-athletes," but balanced by an interesting mix of eccentrics, activists and serious intellectuals. We have watched with some dismay as athletics have moved to such a central focus among the student body and, especially, within the admissions process. My two children chose other prestigious liberal arts colleges and largely dismissed Williams as "a school for smart jocks." I hear this from many people, parents and students alike. When questioned about this once at an alumni event, the Williams president said, "Why shouldn't we excel at athletics just as we excel at so many other things?" Which seemed to me a little beside the point.

mythmom · 05-19-2008, 11:07 PM

Not true of the experience current students are having, nor the admissions process as the class of '11 experienced it.

If your children preferred other LAC's I am glad they are having the experience they desired. Kudos and congrats.

My DS chose Williams, was accepted and adores his time there without ever having played a sport. Many of his friends are the same.

interesteddad · 05-19-2008, 11:12 PM

williamsalum:

You are not alone in your feelings among Williams alumni. A perceived over-emphasis on athletics was one of only two points of alumni disagreement in a fairly recent survey -- the other being overemphasis on alumni fundraising.

Having said that, I would recommend keeping your eyes peeled for incoming fire. Recent Williams alumni, current students, and their parents are a bit prickly on this issue.

icantfindaname · 05-20-2008, 12:41 AM

I guess it all comes down to what form of weighting in the admission process one would like. Alums want their kids admitted, athletes want athletes, oboe players want oboe players. People who are one dimensional smart just want grades. With 2 billion in the bank growing at 25% a year they don't need to care what you think.

rgbaseball · 09-01-2008, 01:36 AM

I was a little disheartened to read the description of a kid with high SAT scores and not so great grades as the "worst kind". My son is a bit like that, and I have been curious as to what "band" he would likely be considered. He scored 1590/1600. He takes the hardest courses at a very rigorous pvt school and will finish in the top 20% but probably not higher. EC's are strong, esp'ly sports. What band is he? Thanks for your thoughts

mythmom · 09-01-2008, 10:40 AM

baseball: I don't think performing well at a very rigorous pvt. high school in the hardest courses is what is meant by not so great grades.

I think that is meant for the kid with the B average in a program where s/he should have been getting A's. Really tough private school programs often challenge even gifted kids.

I think boys are allowed a bit more latitude with GPA's. Sad fact for moms of girls, but true.

The girls, on average, just work harder.

In your son's case, I would help him craft an application that demonstrates his "intellectual vitality" -- that he really enjoys academic things and pursuing learning for its own sake.

I would also help him to focus an application that demonstrates what he would bring to the college he attends. Adcoms are creating communities and they want participators.

Then I would apply to a good selection of schools, including safeties, and try not to worry.

LaMariposaAzul · 09-01-2008, 10:53 AM

Oh, goodness, now I'm nervous about applying to Williams. I'm not an athlete, I do music/newspaper/social action things, and I'm from a more middle class rural part of MA. No one from my school has ever gone to any LAC or Ivy-caliber school before, except for one went to Wellesley and one went to Tufts. But that's it. I've been wondering, how badly will the fact that I don't really do sports (except my family sails a bit) and that I'm from MA affect my application at Williams? I'm asking since I don't really have any other people from my school who've gone there before to reference. Thanks.

onemoremom · 09-01-2008, 11:05 AM

Not to worry. Although about half of the Ephs are involved in sports at some level (club, jv, varsity), that of course means that the other half are not. Williams is also very fine arts-oriented (instrumental and vocal music, theater, art) and as well needs active members of the community to lead and support all the other facets of college life (newspaper, radio station, college governance, social and environmental action committees, etc, etc). Just be sure to mention all your interests and be as thorough as you can about representing your involvements (while emphasizing those of most personal significance) and all should be OK.

rgbaseball · 09-05-2008, 11:24 PM

Mythmom, thanks for the good advice. Your description actually fits my S very well. Thanks again.

mythmom · 09-05-2008, 11:57 PM

You're welcome. And best of luck.

lms2032 · 09-06-2008, 12:51 PM

rgbaseball: I'd like to echo mythmom's sentiments and re-emphasize the importance of applying to a good selection of schools. My son went into the college application process with high test scores but grades that were a problem. It wasn't due to the rigor of the school, just some maturity issues. He is not an athlete but is a fine musician. His application results were all over the board. Some schools evidently didn't get past the grades but others, like Williams, were able to take the whole applicant into account. When you find such a school, your son will probably do very well there, as my son has at Williams. Best of luck!