unregistered

I know the statistics, what is your point? I also know many, many, many people who grew up in Amherst, and I go to school there. UMass is very isolated from the town, and does not cast a shadow on Amherst. You have a very strong opinion about a town which you don't seem to have even visited.

Catfish

I'm also an Amherst student and I agree with unregistered. As much as it might look like it on paper, UMass does not dominate the town. Probably the biggest effect that UMAss has is to provide enough business to keep Antonio's open until 2am on weekends, which is an unambiguously positive impact.

interesteddad

The statistics speak for themselves concerning the impact of UMass on the town of Amherst, MA. Suffice to say that Amherst College is not the big dog in town.

unregistered

Catfish is exactly correct. UMass gives us good cheap restaurants, but is located far out of town and is not a major presence for Amherst students or the locals. I can't imagine the audacity you have to speak so firmly about a town that you know nothing about.

Ephman

First, the odds of getting into both are not all that great for anyone. I'd first apply to both and, If you do, then I'd do whatever possible (I realize it is tough as an international, but this is the next four years of your life) to visit both schools because most people get a strong feelings in their gut after doing so. I had Amherst number one before visits, and I far preferred Williams, and my cousin (currently an Amherst student) had the reverse experience, and we both ended up making the right choice.

There are actually a higher percentage of "tipped" or high-profile athletes at Amherst, the kind of athletes who contribute to a purported "athletic culture," than at Williams. Williams has a marginally higher number of varsity athletes than Amherst, but that is because of ENORMOUS crew, cross country, track and field, and swimming and diving rosters, and I don't think anyone associates these sports with any cultural issues. As a percentage of campus, Amherst has more tipped athletes, more football / hockey / lacrosse players, etc. That being said, my sense upon many visits to the two schools over the years is that a substantially higher percentage of non-varsity Williams folks are outdoorsmen / women or casual athletes (hiking, casual running, frisbee, pick-up hoops) etc. than you'll find among non-varsity athletes at Amherst. Amherst, as you might expect, attracts a marginally mroe cosmopolitan / preppy / artsy type of student, while Williams gets more of the sporty / outdoorsy types, but again, the difference is very, very marginal and I doubt anyone could tell 10 amherst and williams students apart at first glance, save for their college gear.

Indeed, I really believe no two schools in the country attract a more similar student body, or offer a more similar experience. That being said, there are some distinct differences. We've already talked about the five college consortium and the differences in towns. The campuses have a slightly different feel -- Amherst is more the quintessenial quad-heavy charming, insular-feeling New England school, feels a little more closed, while Williams is more of a bunch of random buildings (including a few very loosely-defined quads) plopped down in the middle of the mountains, feels more open and less planned (or less coherent, depending on how you look at it) somehow.

Winter Study is a big difference -- you'll be on campus for all or nearly all four Januaries at Williams, most people love the experience, but some would rather the Amherst inter-term which for most of the student body ends up being a six week break (and as an international, that may be a factor). I much preferred the Williams model, but that is a matter of personal choice.

The junior year has some different options -- Williams has the unique Junior Advisor system (a little different than RA's) as well as the Oxford program and (at least for now) Williams in New York and Williams Mystic, in total those programs involved 15-20 percent of the student body, I am sure Amherst has its own unique junior year opportunities.

Williams has tutorials and VERY loose distribution requirements, Amherst has no tutorials and no requirements at all other than major requirements.

Amherst has ethnic / language theme housing available, Williams does not.

One edge I would say for Williams is in facilities: Amherst has lots of gorgeous new dorms, but other than that, Williams has a huge edge in modern facilities -- the school has built hundreds of millions of dollars worth of new science center, theater (which is broadway caliber, incredible), classroom / office buildings, studio art building, and two student centers over the last decade. By 2011, a brand new, state of the art library will also be completed. Amherst has upgraded a lot of its dorms (as has Williams) but has not been on anything resembling that sort of building binge. As a result, when you look at student center, or science center, or theater, or other student spaces, the difference is pretty stark. That being said, I don't think that the spaces (other than the theater, if you are a prospective theater major) have that dramatic an impact on your experience -- both have basically state of the art facilities. Far more important are the students who occupy those spaces, which is why you should, if at all possible, try to visit and meet as many current frosh / other prospectives as possbile ....

FG13

williams offers a very tight knit community and the entry system also fosters this ideal. there is always a lot going on at williams as i saw on my visit there.

unregistered

I think the last post was pretty good. I'll add that Amherst does not have tutorials, but special topics courses of your choice are a good possibility. I preferred Amherst's interterm options and would probably add that Amherst students can participate in Mystic or a slew of other study away opportunities.

The two were absolutely my two favorite schools and I know I would have been happy at Williams. Amherst has better (amazing) food options nearby but the dining hall is worse. Such little differences.

icantfindaname

"The same type of student that would pick S instead of Williams or Amherst would pick UPenn over Harvard or Yale."

sarcasm...

"A form of verbal irony, expressing sneering, personal disapproval in the guise of praise. (Oddly enough, sarcastic remarks are often used between friends, perhaps as a somewhat perverse demonstration of the strength of the bond--only a good friend could say this without hurting the other's feelings..."

You would not choose S over A or W. And you would not choose UPenn over H or Y. I don't see S and W or A as comparable. S is a great academic school but that's the limit. W and A are enviroments, biospheres of a sort, as Shrek says, like onions.

mythmom

unregistered: Good for you, and I support your defense of your town and school.

Yes, it's fun for Williams and Amherst students to pursue their little rivalry, a lot of fun, but at the end of the day both are wonderful schools.

We went to info sessions for both schools on the same day. Amherst made note of Williams's being offered the same day (big weekend), and Williams did not, but it was all in good fun.

As we watched both sessions I knew in my gut that my boy would prefer Williams, and if it were me, I would prefer Amherst, or so I thought.

That said, my DS applied to both, and had he not been accepted to Williams he would have happily attended Amherst I'm sure, even though he could also have chosen UofC and Brown. He wanted the LAC experience.

Both schools offer stellar experiences as do a host of other LAC's and each has its passionate adherents: The women's colleges, Wesleyan, Vassar, Bowdoin, Colby, Bates, Colgate, Pomona, Grinnell, Reed, Hamilton, Carleton, and many others offer experiences that are very similar.

And how could I forget Haverford and Swarthmore, two fabulous options as well.

If I forget your school and you are reading this, my apologies.

Now all that said, Amherst students, I am not supposed to be nice to you, orders of DS. (All in good fun and I said. He's not crazy.)

unregistered

I always appreciate your posts, mythmom. I don't really even see my last few posts as a defense of the town of Amherst, though (or the school). I think there are plenty of valid criticisms of both the town and the school...but this particular one is just completely false. And yeah, I am easily irritable and always have problems with people being so firm about things they know nothing about. Maybe I shouldn't be so cranky, I know!

mythmom

I think you're very sweet.

interesteddad

Yeah, but what you are missing is that being in the shadow of UMass is a POSITIVE for Amherst relative to Williams. It means that like other college towns, you get the benefit of the major concerts and all the other amenities that come with a student population of 25,000.

And, you Jeffies have some kind of strange sense of distance. UMass is exactly three-quarters of a mile from town center. That's hardly "way outside of town" unless your definition of town stops and starts with Amherst's campus.

It is simply absurd to say that a university of 25,000 doesn't dominate the college town where it is located.

Catfish

Interesteddad, I think Jeffs do have a little bit of a warped sense of distance. There's a couple of dorms a few blocks off campus towards town (called "the hill"), which are very nice by any measure. They once were frat houses but were taken over by the college when frats were eliminated. They used to be all mid-sized doubles, but have been converted to giant singles. Some of the rooms have multiple closets and even fireplaces. All this is only a 7 minute walk from campus, and most people don't want to live there because they are "too far away". Distorted conceptions of distance are a price you pay for going to a small school.

Also, Ephman summarized things pretty well. Listen to him.

jrpar

Great post by Ephman.

unregistered

Crap I am having computer issues and it looks like I accidentally posted thirty trillion times and they were all deleted. Well anyways, perhaps our senses of distance are skewed by the fact that Amherst is located right next to the town common at the center of town, while UMass is far enough that Hadley is usually a more accessible spot for UMass students. I am glad that UMass is there; it gives us damned good, cheap food options, and some great concerts, speakers, and events. Amherst is not overwhelmed by it in any real way that I can perceive, though.