I'm a high school senior trying to choose between Dartmouth and Williams. I know both are very similar in terms of location, liberal arts focus, and professor quality. I'm hardly an athlete, prefer coffee to beer, and plan to divide my time roughly equally between the sciences and the humanities. I like music/theater, outing clubs, and publications/radio. Williams' small size/homogeneity worry me, but on the other hand I'm nervous about the Dartmouth frat scene. What do you think? The cost is approximately the same for each, too.
I really like Tunnel city, the coffee house at Williams. On the other hand, Hanover's coffee shop is awesome too. Hanover is a bit more expensive. Williams is entirely student oriented.
My S had the same choice. In the end, he preferred Williams to Dartmouth and Brown, but you may feel the opposite.
The one item you need to consider is whether you want a trimester system or a 4-1-4 approach. This is what turned me off to Princeton as well. You are forced to cram after winter break.
Visit both. Remember, fit, forseability and financial aid are the primary considerations facing students. Regardless, prestige and rankings among tier one schools is about the same. Find the one you are comfortable with and make that school your aim.
Think very carefully about whether the quarter system vs. the Williams 4-1-4 system is right for you. Some people find the quarter system highly uncomfortable (they feel they are constantly under deadlines). Yet, it also gives Dartmouth students opportunities to do interesting, unusual things during their D Plan months "off" (assuming they aren't athletes: interesting, unusual things are still possible for athletes but they may face more schedule constraints, depending on their coaches). Many Williams students love the opportunities their (pass/fail) Winter Study periods offer them.
I think these scheduling differences and the presence of the Greek system at Dartmouth/absence of the Greek system at Williams are the two biggest differences between the two schools from a general point of view (although there are other differences that might well make a determining difference to a particular applicant, given his or her particular interests/proclivities).
A couple of things that haven't been mentioned--
1-Dartmouth is about twice the size of Williams, and identifies as the "smallest Ivy" rather than a bigger version of Williams/Amherst, etc--This means more mission conflict between research (which you need to be an Ivy) and undergraduate teaching and more of a tendency to go after research stars--there are good scholars at Williams and good teachers at Dartmouth, but more cross-pressures at Dartmouth
2-There's been more conflict at Dartmouth between a loud visible group of conservative alums and the last couple of administrations--Mostly over students' heads, but D just seems to be a more politically and socially conservative school
1) Dartmouth is not conservative. Alums from the class of 1950 hardly influence the current make-up of the school. 92% of Dartmouth students polled voted for Obama.
2) Dartmouth is almost a total LAC with a few professional schools. This is actually an advantage. It means ZERO T/As in ANY class - essentially a LAC- but when you want to do research at the med school for example its right there. Dartmouth is almost a pure LAC - its nothing like a Harvard or Columbia.
I love Williams and I think choosing between these two is a size issue. But some of this stuff cited here is just plain inaccurate.
Dartmouth is closer to three times the size of Williams, if you count graduate and professional students. Dartmouth is small by Ivy standards, but very large by LAC standards.
Dartmouth has one of the strongest Greek cultures in the northeast. Williams has a strictly enforced ban on Greek organizations, secret societies, eating clubs, etc.
Both schools were historically male-only, and they approached coeducation in different ways. Williams totally banned the old all-male frats and clubs, and rebuilt itself from scratch as a completely coed institution. Dartmouth allowed the old all-male frats and clubs to stay, and they still exist, side-by-side with coed and all-female organizations. Male and female students are more likely to be socially segregated at Dartmouth, and socially integrated at Williams.
Campus debate seems different at Dartmouth and Williams. There always seems to be some kind of issue in play at Dartmouth, with one group of students, alumni, faculty, or administrators complaining loudly about the actions of another. Williams leans in the oposite direction, towards consensus rather than confrontation; campus issues seem to be settled quietly, behind closed doors. One consequence is that Dartmouth papers and blogs are much more interesting to read. I doubt that Dartmouth students, overall, are any liberal or conservative than Williams students; however, I do think that the most politically committed students at Dartmouth are more vocal and in-your-face than those at Williams.
Dartmouth has a reputation for emphasis on undergraduate teaching; Williams is even stronger in this regard. Williams is wealthier on an endowment per-student basis, and can afford luxuries like 2-student tutorials.
Both schools have athletic students. Dartmouth has Division I athletics, and can be nationally competitive in sports like ice hockey or skiing. Williams competes at the lower Division III level.
2) Dartmouth is almost a total LAC with a few professional schools. This is actually an advantage. It means ZERO T/As in ANY class - essentially a LAC- but when you want to do research at the med school for example its right there. Dartmouth is almost a pure LAC - its nothing like a Harvard or Columbia.
Granted, Dartmouth is not Harvard or Columbia, but it isn't an LAC. There are TA's at Dartmouth, and the professors in the department I am interested in are simply not as focused on undergrads as those at Williams.
Dartmouth is almost a total LAC with a few professional schools. This is actually an advantage. It means ZERO T/As in ANY class - essentially a LAC
If there are "ZERO T/As in ANY class" at Dartmouth, then why do so many Dartmouth graduate programs currently advertise teaching assistantships ?
Molecular & Cellular Biology: "... at least one term of teaching is required of all Ph.D. students...This teaching requirement is normally completed by serving as teaching assistant for one term during the second year in the program"
Comp Lit: "The Comparative Literature Program assists students in finding positions as teaching assistants, language apprentice teachers, writing assistants, or research assistants within relevant Dartmouth departments."
Writing: "The Institute for Writing and Rhetoric seeks talented and interested MALS students to serve as Teaching Assistants"
Math: "Every graduate student who is not yet advanced to candidacy as of the beginning of fall term is given a teaching assistant assignment during two quarters of that academic year."
Engineering: "Teaching assistantships may be available to well-qualified students. A teaching assistant is paid hourly to assist with grading, problem sessions, and/or lab work."
Physics: "TA Responsibilities:...Conduct the assigned lab sections...Conduct one hour of office hours...Keep a written grade record...Supervise the students when they are making up a lab on their own time...Before the first lab session, prepare and Xerox an information sheet for your students...Expect the students to know ten times less than you think they should know"
I think it's true that Dartmouth that relies less on TAs than other universities. But I'm not convinced that the number of TAs is zero, as it is at Wiliams or other LACs.
Those T/A opportunities are as actual "teaching assistants" i.e. in sections or in labs. They don't teach actual classes as they do at research universities. Dartmouth only has T/As teach classes in one dept - intro math.
And if you google "teaching assistants Williams College", you'll find all sorts of interesting people!
You'll notice that at Williams, undergraduate teaching assistants can even do up to 15% of the grading (something I doubt you'd ever see at Dartmouth).
Some grading or scoring is appropriate, but TAs should never be used to grade examinations or quizzes where the evaluation is subjective or even borders on the subjective. Even where the evaluation is objective (or could better be described as scoring) the use of TAs for grading should consciously be minimized. In no cases should that portion of the grading for which they are responsible constitute more than 15% of the final grade.
I know person who got shafted in a dartmouth math course because a TA grader graded the final (worth 20%) really unfairly.
True. But it wasn't a fellow undergraduate! Anyway, the notion that there are no TAs at Williams is simply untrue, and that the TAs at Dartmouth are older, more experienced, and pursuing graduate degrees in the subjects they TA goes without saying.
(P.S. I'd choose Williams, and DID, but the TA issue is either a non-starter or a non sequitur.)
