lavalamp17

I read that around only 14% of Williams students major in the sciences. That kind of concerned me...so I was wondering, are the sciences at Williams a strong department, or should I look elsewhere?? I want to major in Biology or Chemistry...and possibly Anthropology (we'll see). I love Williams for the tight-knit community, athletic component, and the outdoorsy student body. But I just don't know if it's right for me..

interesteddad

That number is incorrect. Williams has a lot of science majors and its math and sciences are strong offerings. Amherst has few science majors and outdated science facilities.

Here's the percentage of science, math, and engineering majors relative to total undergrade degrees awarded for the five years from 2003-2007 at selected top LACs, private universities, and public universities. This is from the IPEDS govenment database:

35% -- Stanford University
33% -- Rice University
31% -- Duke University
31% -- University of California-Berkeley
30% -- Princeton University
30% -- Carleton College
29% -- Swarthmore College
27% -- Columbia University in the City of New York
26% -- Grinnell College
26% -- University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
26% -- Haverford College
26% -- Vanderbilt University
25% -- University of Chicago
24% -- Williams College
23% -- Harvard University
23% -- Bryn Mawr College
21% -- Dartmouth College
20% -- University of Virginia-Main Campus
19% -- Brown University
18% -- Pomona College
17% -- Yale University
17% -- Davidson College
17% -- Bowdoin College
16% -- Smith College
16% -- Washington and Lee University
15% -- College of William and Mary
15% -- University of Pennsylvania
15% -- Amherst College
14% -- Oberlin College
13% -- University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
12% -- Wesleyan University
12% -- Claremont McKenna College
12% -- Wellesley College
11% -- Emory University
11% -- Middlebury College
11% -- Vassar College

lavalamp17

Thanks for the data!
Could you elaborate on Amherst's outdated facilities please?

interesteddad

Most of the top LACs have been replacing science centers built in the 1960s that were reaching the end of their life cycles. Williams, Swarthmore, Grinnell, I'd have to go down the list.

It's a challenging project because, if you just tear down the old one, there's no where to move the science to during construction, so a common approach is to build a new science complex around the old one, move people into the new parts, and then gut and renovate the old buildings. Science centers are expensive. Figure $50 milllion to $100 million for a liberal arts college science center project.

Anyway, Amherst had not replaced their old Merrill Science Center when the market crashed. They have stated that is is obsolete. They may procede with the project, but there is nothing even started yet. No designs. It'll be a few years at the earliest before they could actually break ground. Five for Six years before it could be done at the earliest.

lavalamp17

wow, thats good to know! thanks for all the information!!

Corbett

Williams and Swarthmore are the top LACs in the northeast for science and math. They have lots of science/math majors, lots of science/math faculty, and well-funded modern facilities. I suspect that even the non-science types, like the econ majors, are more likely to lean towards the quantitative side than at most other LACs.

More on Amherst's science facilities here; unfortunately, the proposed renovations have been further delayed since that story was written, due to budget problems. It seems possible that science facilities may have been a lower priority at Amherst, simply because science enrollments are significantly lower there. Amherst has an "open curriculum", and in practice, a large proportion of Amherst students avoid science and math classes entirely.

limabeans

I'm surprised Washington University in St Louis isn't on the list. I wonder if WashU is still growing, so not as big back in 2003, or if they don't have much math & engineering, just sciences. What is IPEDS? Is this info available just for sciences too?

Corbett

WUSTL does have a relatively high proportion of math, science, and engineering majors, probably around 30%. It just wasn't one of the schools that happened to be chosen for comparison in the post above.

limabeans

So, I should assume there are many other schools, not listed in the list above, that place a heavy emphasis in Science/Math/Engineering? That's a good thing. There are so many schools I wanted to see listed: Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, G'town among many others. Where did this list come from and is it accurate to list some schools that have a large proportion of students in this field and not others?

Corbett

According to Post #2 above, the data shown came from IPEDS, a government database. For more information, try entering "IPEDS" into Google. Unfortunately, many people find the IPEDS database difficult to use, although the "College Navigator" application seems to work OK. As an alternative, many schools post a "Common Data Set", which will include data on degrees granted in Section J.

According to Post #2 above, the list covered "selected" schools. There was no claim that the list was comprehensive.

limabeans

Tried to do my own search using IPEDS, unsuccessfully. So, I appreciate seeing the list above.

flufflyone

It's interesting to find the same people writing here as on the Amherst discussion thread. I think a few of you are showing unfair and unwarranted bias...interesteddad, in particular, seems to spend significant time dissing Amherst. Don't believe everything you read here; always do your own investigating...

jeke

The new president of Williams is a physicist. I would expect sciences at Williams, already far stronger than most LACs, to only get better over the next few years.

williamsdad

I hope so.

johnwesley

actually, up until January, it was just the opposite, interesteddad couldn't say enough good things about Amherst, Tony Marx and the wonderful job they were doing steering Amherst; it was Williams that was the constant object of his opprobrium. But, that was before news accounts of how complicated Amherst's financial condition really was. Apparently, the one thing Interesteddad disapproves of more than the lingering legacy of an all-male college, is the lingering legacy of an all-male college living on a strict allowance.