teenage_cliche

Keilex: I think that small women's colleges (aka all women's colleges) is probably not the right environment for anyone who doesn't like small coed schools, with most of what that implies. If you want a big sports scene or heavy Greek life, you shouldn't go to a women's colleges, just like you shouldn't go to a comparable small coed LAC. I think the reverse is true as well; if you're a qualified women interested primarily in LACs, you should at least consider women's colleges, as they probably meet most of your desires by default.

Keilexandra

^ Interesting. So here is a general question, and I may post it as a thread-level question later: for "a qualified [woman] interested primarily in LACs," is there any particular characteristic--as a generalization--that would make such a woman a poor fit for a women's college? Disregard individual academic fit and other issues that would be exactly the same if the same college were coed.

rocket6louise

^^if she hates other women?
i guess that's the only thing i could think of

the majority of girls i talk to are just turned off by the thought of women's colleges

mini

Statistically, the majority of Smith students couldn't get into Swarthmore. The fact that the outputs can be reasonably compared speaks volumes about relative educational quality. And I doubt that it has anything at all to do with the entrance characteristics of the women who choose either.

rocket6louise

^^i think that's a bit rash. I have the stats to get into a place like Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst or even an ivy. Yet, I find a women's college far more appealing..I'm sure there are others like me

Keilexandra

rocket, statistically you would be in the upper quarter of Smith students.

I'm not speaking of entrance characteristics -> output. I'm wondering what, if any, entrance characteristics might make a women's college a lesser fit for a given student than the identical coed college. Pretend Smith magically had a 50/50 gender ratio--would this hypothetical school be a better fit for any woman than the current 100/0 Smith? Who would that kind of woman be?

Consolation

Re #36: a woman who is highly focused on attaining the approval of males would not be a fit for a women's college.

Hunt

Perhaps a person who would prefer to go to a college with both men and women would not be a good fit for a single-sex college.

mini

"i think that's a bit rash. I have the stats to get into a place like Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst or even an ivy. Yet, I find a women's college far more appealing..I'm sure there are others like me."

You would join my d., who was admitted to them. But still a statistical outlier.

"Pretend Smith magically had a 50/50 gender ratio--would this hypothetical school be a better fit for any woman than the current 100/0 Smith?"

Can't. Smith is a WOMEN'S college first, LAC second. (and, for the most part, LACs don't have engineering schools, nor graduate programs.)

Hunt

This was my point on the first page; there's really no justification for single-sex colleges unless there is some reason for them other than the fact that they are just good colleges. That reason can just be preference for a single-sex environment, of course.

Keilexandra

^^ You certainly CAN. It's a perfectly reasonable, though flawed, hypothetical. You may of course add as many caveats as you wish, but the posed hypothetical is reasonable.

Most LACs don't have engineering schools or graduate programs, yes; I can think of several that do have engineering (Swarthmore, Bucknell, Lafayette, Union) and more that have graduate programs (you never specified they had to be top-X grad programs--lots of colleges offer a master's in education, for instance, and even aside from that, cf. Wesleyan).

mini

"This was my point on the first page; there's really no justification for single-sex colleges unless there is some reason for them other than the fact that they are just good colleges."

The reason for them is that they can educate and prepare women for lives as women in a culture in which women's lives ARE different. Other than that, they need no justification. (As LACs, they would need a separate justification.)

What's the point of educating and preparing the 50% of men in your hypothetical for lives as women?

Keilexandra

My hypothetical is not Hunt's hypothetical. I did not make the claim that there is no justification for single-sex colleges.

If that is your response--perfectly valid--then the question becomes supposed academic benefits vs. supposed social drawbacks. Both are true for the majority of the population, though not for a minority (e.g. some women may do fine with coed preparation for living in a multiple-sex world; some women may not want to involve themselves in romantic relationships in college, or are attracted to those of the same sex).

After all, HBCUs exist because life as a black person--male or female--is different from life as a person of another race. Would all black people receive a superior education at an HBCU? I would argue not, for the same reasons that I would argue a single-sex education is NOT superior for ALL women, even when the pool of "all" is limited to those for whom the college is an academic fit and who seeks an LAC. I'm no psychology expert, but it seems plausible to me that SOME women might need to "practice" everyday interaction with males in order to best prepare THEM to compete against men after college.

rocket6louise

maybe this is a bit off topic, but do you see men's colleges like Wabash as necessary or relevant as women's colleges? I'm interested in what you all think

mini

Mission

Smith College educates women of promise for lives of distinction.

"Would all black people receive a superior education at an HBCU?"

For women, this is a data question. And I think the data are quite clear. Could there be other women at the college? Of course. But there aren't. This is an empirical question, not a theoretical one. Those who attend receive a superior education. As for those who don't, another question entirely. I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons to choose an inferior education.