fireflyscout

There's a group on Facebook protesting potential changes to WPI's grading policy. It looks like they'll be doing away with the "no record" option.

#theorymom

Can you explain the no record option?

dadinator

If you get below a "C" in a course, they wipe it off your transcript. It is as if the course was never taken.

Here is a link (see "no failing grades"):

Office of Undergraduate Admissions - Academics

al6200

The change was only proposed. To my knowledge no actual action has been taking.

I personally think that it would be wise to add a D, and then make the threshold for an NR a 50%. But I don't think that an F grade or +/- prefixes would be good ideas.

WPI needs the NR because it has a quarter system. At a school with a semester system, you could realize if you were taking a class that you were unprepared for and drop the class. But at WPI the term goes by so quickly that a student might not realize that the class was ill-suited for them until after the midterm/final.

Also, what happens if you bomb the midterm? With a semester system there is time to recover. Not so with 7 week terms.

Jessephen

My son is a junior at WPI. I remember when we went there for the info session they explained that the no record policy was also a good way to encourage students (usually very strong in math and science) to take some courses outside of their usual comfort zone. If they did poorly in the course is wouldn't hurt their transcript or GPA (which a lot of these math/sci types are especially conscious of). Sorry if this is a little stereotypical but this IS often the case at these schools that are full of high achievers. Another policy that might also encourage students taking courses outside their usual comfort zone is the ability to elect a pass/fail option occasionally. I know Brown does this and I think the first term at MIT is all P/F. Anyway, maybe WPI could go to something like this if they get rid of the no record option.

Skithesteeps

I cannot believe they would do away with the "NR" option. For those of us old timers that were there under the original "Plan", we had no grades. You had "AC" which was acceptable, "AD" which was acceptable with distinction, and then "NR". This type of grading made the atmosphere very teamwork oriented. Students were always diving in to help other students with their work and help them understand because you weren't "competing" for grades.

As noted above, NR's were really important with those "stretch" classes or when you wanted to see if something like Organic Chemistry was really as bad as the Chem Eng's made it out to be (it was...). Or take that Oceanography class and find out 3 weeks in that it really wasn't really what you expected it to be... I'm sure there was a ton of complaining when they went to "real" grades. I know I would have been VERY vocally against it, but they were trying to hold on to ABET accreditation and ABET just doesn't "get it" sometimes.

Doing away with the NR just wouldn't make any sense at all in the WPI culture that they try to foster. Besides, then there would be no "snowflakes" either! (For those not up to speed on WPI lingo, a snowflake is a report card with nothing on it... I never got one, but my roomate sophomore year did... She transfered to Worcester State the next year...)

Just be glad they did get rid of the competency exam...

al6200

I like the idea in theory, but it seems like there would be no way to differentiate oneself from other students, which would discourage top applicants from going to WPI.

I believe the proposed plan would allow you to "withdraw" without record as late as 5 weeks into the class.

It seems to me like the effect of adding more detailed grades (like a C and D, as opposed to just a C) is that students who score at the bottom of their reported grades will lose, and those who at the top will win. So if I'm a student who gets a 90 in calculus, I gain from there not being an A- grade. But if I get a lot of 89s, I lose from there not being a B+.

The net effect is to encourage students to get higher grades. As you pointed out, this makes students more competitive (which is incompatible with the way the real world of engineering works) but it also allows the top students to really shine.

Heh... I sure am!

jackbauer24

what is this competency exam of which you speak?
and although i like the sound of the grading system that you described, i do see reasons for changing it. whatever, it's not a huge deal to me.

CBBBlinker

Someone asked about this (getting rid of NR) at the Accepted Student Day. The Admin. answer was that the topic is being discussed, but no decisions have been made -- but they didn't see completely doing away with the NR "grade."

Skithesteeps

The Competency Exam was done away with quite a few years ago. Back in the "old days" (I graduated 25 years ago...) we had the grades I described above and during your senior year you took a competency exam in your area of concentration. It consisted of a few parts including a portion that you did while in a classroom (open book, but had to be completed in the room) - usually about 3 hours. Then you had a "take home" portion/project that you had to complete over a day or 2 and then turn in. Then you had the pleasure of going before a board of 3 teachers and they could ask you about just about anything for what seemed like hours, but was probably 30-45 minutes. Many of us did not pass the first time and we had a few friends that didn't graduate with us because they "NR'd" their comp on the 2nd or 3rd try. It was EXTREMELY stressful. The comp was administered at each term break. You had to pass it by between C & D term to graduate with the class in May.

As for the comments of al6200, when you're out in the "real world" you'll realize that grades don't mean squat. Get over that winner/loser mentality. Ask questions. Try new things. Approach something the "wrong way" just to see what happens. Help someone else that is struggling. THAT is what education is. Trust me, an employer is going to be looking a lot more at your projects and who you are than what your GPA or grades are. What is the difference between a 3.5 graduate and a 2.5 graduate? Maybe that 2.5 graduate was putting in 20 hours a week working while going to school and didn't have the time to "polish" those labs before handing them in every week.

Education does not equal intelligence. Intelligence comes from application of education. Shooting to get higher grades? Who cares. Show me what you can do with the knowledge you have. Show me your mistakes. Tell me what you learned from those mistakes. Employers look for the curious and the creative. That is why it is sad that they even caved in and went to "A", "B", "C" grades. It somehow puts more importance on the grade than the knowledge. It sets up competition instead of cooperation.

Obviously I think this generation is WAY too hung up on grades... Everyone needing to know "where they stand" in relation to everyone else. Truth is there are a lot of "C" students out there that will be the ones that really shine in the workplace 5 years from now. And a lot of "A" students scratching their heads trying to figure out how to work with others to get something done since all they've known how to do was keep their heads buried in the books and take tests so they can "shine".

OldEngineer

I agree with Skithesteeps!! As a graduate of WPI and a mother of a daughter who is a H.S. senior, students are more focused on what their classmates are getting for grades and what their class rank is than learning what is going on in the classroom.

In the "real world" I want someone who will work with others to get a project done NOT someone who is lookng to impress me by competing with their coworkers. It creates a very nonproductive environment. Focus on learning and cooperating and you will "shine" as a byproduct.

Actually the Compentency Exam was a character building experience... but was not graded consistantly throughout the departments. Chem Eng was the worst (and I was an EE). I actually had similar experiences in the "real world" where a report and presenation was needed in a short period of time...

The project work at WPI is an excellent experience and really gets your foot in the door after graduation.

The grading system did cause problems when classmates applied to Grad Schools however. Other schools (i.e. MIT and Cal Tech) use a similar Pass/Fail grading policy but I don't believe it is for the entire 4 years.

Good Luck to all.

#theorymom

any news on this front?

#theorymom

OK
I asked a few faculty while there and was assured this was voted down this time (again and by a large margin) so not likely to happen soon if ever

fireflyscout

Thank you for the update - I'm glad to hear this.