wjb

^^Good description of my son, too. You hit it on the head, Bay.

Re football: My son is in a very compatible suite of eight guys, two of them recruited athletes. One is on the football team, and the other plays a sport with a lower profile. Son says that they seldom see the football player because his sport takes up so much of his time. The other athlete is an integral part of their cozy group.

JHS

The kids I know at Yale now, or recently (a couple just graduated), were not anyone's idea of "stealth competitors". They were not at all cutthroat, but no one ever accused them of hiding their light under a bushel.

As for football players, my college had a lot of them, including two future bona fide NFL stars, and they had pretty normal lives in the off-season. I saw one (not an NFLer) this summer at a non-Yale event. He was never a close friend at all, but it's clear that we both went to the same college.

EngProfMom

You've named some of Harvard's impressive "stars" in the English faculty, JHS, although I do note, when I look at Harvard's English Dept. website, all of their office hours are listed "by appt" or "on leave." The question of how to compare the relative strengths and Yale's and Harvard's English Depts would be a complex one, of course, but Yale's clear and current evidence of an ongoing plan for hiring new faculty would be crucial in any evaluation of Yale's strengths, in addition to the evidence of granting tenure to scholars who work in both "core" areas as well as at the "edges" of a discipline and thus create new areas and link with other areas.

Evident strengths in Yale's English Dept. are American Studies (long an area of strength for Yale), where Michael Warner (brilliant in queer theory) and Wai-Chee Dimock are both outstanding in influencing how younger scholars are now redefining the field. While it's true that Harvard has Jorie Graham, Yale's J.D. McClatchey (also editor of the famed Yale Review, which publishes lots of young poets) is excellent. While Harvard does have Henry Louis Gates, Yale is taking a really "edgy" approach to African American Studies with the brilliant writer Caryl Phillips.

It's really interesting to see that Yale is apparently doing searches for "emerging" areas such as Asian American Lit, and that with the terrific hire of Alastair Minnis in medieval, Yale appears to be building a strong program there, too. Both Medieval Studies and 18th century studies are really interesting fields within an English Dept. because that's where you often find people doing deeply interdisciplinary work, extending out to Comp Lit, to other languages. Of course no English professor is going to dismiss Shakespeare, and an interesting thing about David Scott Kastan - another recent hire to Yale, from Columbia -- is that he has a solid record training graduate students.

In sum, a quick look in comparing the two English Depts.: they're about equal in 19th century Victorian, about equal MAYBE in creative writing (although Yale's School of Drama adds considerably there, and Yale has a number of really good practicing critics), Harvard's Greenblatt AND Barbara Lewalski get the edge for Shakespeare/Renaissance, but Yale is way ahead in American and Comparative/Ethnic Studies.

Were I to compare their strengths in literary and cultural theory -- a field where Yale was way, way ahead of Harvard, which has never caught up -- I'd argue that the "historicist" approach that Harvard's Greenblatt represents is more than matched by Yale's evident strengths in postcolonial, conceived in a broad way, through many excellent people trained and working in Comparative Literature, such as Pericles Lewis, Katie Trumpener, etc.

Hunt

I think it would be worth going to Yale just to study with somebody name Pericles Lewis.

T26E4

In my extended group of buddies there were 3 rowers, 4 footballers and one hockey guy and one B-baller. During any particular season, you'd see the guys occasionally and usually late at night because they had to be so disciplined with their time juggling practice and other ECs and school work. However, I can honestly say we all had lots of bonding time and we all considered each other dear and even intimate friends. I'd say it was a direct result of the Residential College system which forced the happy coincidence of diverse guys and gals together to form deep and lasting friendships.

I don't have any first hand info but it would seem the House system can't deliver this as well. I knew a girl who was a swimmer at Stanford and she really felt she missed out on a lot because her circle was mostly only other swimmers. She couldn't comprehend how I knew so many people that were traditionally in "tight" circles.

Regardless, best of luck to you. If you choose H, please don't bemoan us if we "boo" at you. It's out of love anyways!

maineparent

My S is a freshman at Yale.... doing a sport.... and he is putting in long days... but, I too echo T26E4's view of the residential college system and the value it brings.... cause my S really enjoys his room/suite mates... national debate champ, national math champ, a history guru and each one is bringing something to the late nite as they watch a baseball or basketball game..... they are going to dances.... and soccer matches.... and one is playing frisbee and another is doing Christian stuff.... and they are all happy and working HARD....

I just read a funny thing at the Yale Daily News about Handsome Dan.... and one of the bulldogs actually was trained to play "dead" when asked if they'd rather go to Harvard or die?

New Haven is a great location... lots of great restaurants... easy access to NYC...
my take is that Yale is the biggest thing in New Haven so that makes it easy and fun... whereas Harvard is not the biggest thing in Boston.... I think this delivers a greater sense of community to the Eli's...... and it is part of what makes Bladderball real... or any of the other things that makes Yale fun.... they just do not take themselves toooo seriously... Yale rules New Haven....

if football is your sport, then you might want to choose Harvard or Michigan or USC or a Pac10 school ...cause Yale will never win, even when they tie..... but, if you want to do a big sport and yet not feel devastated if you lose, then Yale might be an option, cause winning isn't everything to Eli's... enjoying the journey is more important.... doing your best equals winning is what I see there....

speakmusic14

I'm not an alum or anything, just hoping to attend Yale next fall, so I'm not sure how much this will help.

The reason I'm not even applying to Harvard is because it didn't feel like home. When I walked the campus, I thought it was beautiful and I know they have wonderful programs and opportunities. Nevertheless, I couldn't picture Harvard as being my school. The exact opposite happened at Yale. As soon as I came on to the campus, I felt like I belonged, like I would have something to give to the community. I also had the opportunity to sit in on a class and was amazed at the quality of teaching. Though I was sitting in a lecture hall for an intro course that nearly every freshman takes (there were about 150 people in the class), the teacher was talking TO the students, not AT them. I felt as if she truly cared. The main difference, I believe, between Harvard and Yale is that Yale is way more down to earth. Prior to visiting, I had never seen a place with so many brilliant AND humble. Yale felt like home.

Like I said, I'm not sure if that helped at all, but that is just my view on your desirable problem . Though you are going for athletics, don't forget that this will also be your college, the place that you will spend the next four years in. Contrary to all the people who have preferred Harvard in this thread because of the prestige, I would advise you not to choose a college because of the name, but rather, because of the atmosphere.

good luck!!

JHS

"Yale will never win, even when they tie."

Huh? Harvard, Michigan, or USC? Double Huh?

Since when?

Look, Harvard's team may fight to the end, but Yale WILL win.

T26E4

pacman: i went over to the Harvard forum to see what people were telling you. I was just curious. I'll add 2 more points. Because of Yale's prominence in New Haven, students tend to have more school spirit IMHO. In Boston, it's not hard to go over to some other college's events practically every weekend. Not as much opportunity for Yalies so they tend to be more creative about what happens ON campus.

I'll leave you this last "intangible". At an alum event when former President Shmidt was speaking, I was chatting with one of his aides, whom I found out had gone to H for undergrad and Y for grad (and was also his current employer). I said to him:"Tell us the real deal. As much as we hate to admit it, we're curious about what it was like to be at Harvard." He considered my question and replied: "Graduating from Harvard college made me feel like there was nothing I couldn't conquer" I thought: "Wow! That's some praise!"

Then he continued: "But I LOVED Yale."

To me , that sums it up. Yalies, from what I can tell, are much more rabidly in love with their alma mater. Heck, even note the number of replies you gotten here versus the Harvard forum. We wanna sway ya!

EngProfMom

"I just read a funny thing at the Yale Daily News about Handsome Dan.... and one of the bulldogs actually was trained to play "dead" when asked if they'd rather go to Harvard or die?"

Check out the article and the video Yale Daily News - Media - The first live college mascot in the country, Handsome Dan has represented Yale since 1889.

Ok, I've never been to any football game (really!), but the sheer earnest straightforward weirdness of it, plus the cheerfully bizarre Yale Football Medley that I heard for the first time at Parents' Weekend, as sung by the Whym n Rhythm and Whiffenpoofs makes me think I should make a point of going to a game, sometime.

JHS

My wife has been to one football game in her life -- the Harvard-Yale game her junior year. That was plenty for her.

Lyndon Johnson took Soviet Foreign Minister Alexei Kosygin to an NFL game at a summit in 1967 or thereabouts. Kosygin, who had never seen American football before, reportedly commented, "I enjoy very much. Everybody fall down. Everybody get up. Everybody fall down again."

southeasttitan

SOOO not the truth...where in the world did you pick that up?

Personally, though, OP, I picked Yale over Harvard because I liked the residential college system, the English department, and the campus better, among other things. Mostly though, I thought Yale students seemed kinder, more social, less stuck up and more unique than Harvard students. I simply didn't like the environment at Harvard. I also didn't like the way I was treated post-admission at Harvard--as though I should simply be grateful to have been accepted and it would be a travesty if I didn't attend. Yale gave me a lot of personal attention and acted as though they wanted me to be there--they even paid for me to fly out for Bulldog Days.

Hunt

It was the truth 30 years ago when I was at Yale, and it's the truth now. But people don't take it too seriously. It's kind of a joke thing, but it is a thing. I would just add that it's a thing that runs both ways--look at the lyrics of the Harvard and Yale football fight songs and you'll see what I mean. Neither one has lyrics about beating Cornell.

riverrunner

I think for most current Yale students, HY a fun rivalry, with a LOT of tradition. And I would guess many Yale students chose Yale, and didn't somehow "settle for second best": some students were admitted to both and chose Y, and others made the choice before they sent any applications.

wjb

Re chips on shoulders, the latest anti-Yale t-shirts on sale at Harvard in anticipation of the Big Game:

Yale Daily News - News flash: Harvard's Game T-shirts are lame