Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.

Acceptance Shaming ("she only got in because she's _______")

1246718

Replies to: Acceptance Shaming ("she only got in because she's _______")

  • collegebound752collegebound752 Registered User Posts: 558 Member
    Thank you @lookingforward. I did not post my article link in order to spark debate. In fact, there's nothing debatable about my article. My article is not about affirmative action.
  • SuchwowmuchcoolSuchwowmuchcool Registered User Posts: 93 Junior Member
    edited May 2014
    The reason people "acceptance shame" is because they see people like URMs and legacies get substantial advantages that they did not earn. Let's be clear; it's not the same as getting in "just because" someone was so and so. People that say that do not know enough about the college admissions process.

    From lurking around the results threads and also finding out about results at my high school though, there is a different admissions standard that URMs and legacies are held to. URMs and legacies, once they clear a certain bar (32 ACT, 3.7 UW GPA, leadership positions) will tend to be accepted. All non-hooked applicants at my school that got into the top schools the past few years had credentials like 35+ ACT, 4.0 UW GPA, leadership positions, PLUS something that is really amazing (from the profiles of admits from my school, they are all-state athletes, Siemens semifinalists, holders of patent-worthy research).

    People will latch on to the standardized test differential and GPA differential and say, "Look! There's the proof!" However, from the results threads, I have seen non-hooked Asian and White kids getting in with 33 ACT and 3.8 GPAs on the results threads. Test scores and GPA are not what the URM-legacy advantage help with.

    What these hooked applicants get is the privilege to not have to stand out, because they already do. By virtue of being born into a particular family that has a tradition at a school or being born into a particular race, they immediately have something that intrigues admissions officers. From both these results threads and also from my experiences looking around at my high school, legacies and URMs will typically have that all-important part of their application lacking yet still find their way into Harvard or Yale.

    Now, some will just attribute these results to the unpredictability of admissions. Personally, I think that unpredictability is overstated. Admissions officers try their best to be fair, and most of the time, you can pretty much tell who will get in or not. Standards are standards, and although they are different for different groups, they are still standards and have to be followed.
  • collegebound752collegebound752 Registered User Posts: 558 Member
    @Suchwowmuchcool‌, if you look at URM acceptance rates at top schools you will see that many of the things you are claiming are false. For example, the acceptance rate of African American applicants at Brown this past year was 12%. Hardly a huge advantage.
  • SuchwowmuchcoolSuchwowmuchcool Registered User Posts: 93 Junior Member
    edited May 2014
    @collegebound752‌ It isn't a stretch to say that overall, non-URM groups are more self-selecting than URM groups due to the advantage URMs get. Non-URM groups will usually not apply unless they are truly the best of the best---at least at their schools. They have heard horror stories from friends that had perfect standardized test scores and pretty good leadership activities get shut out of the Ivy league. However, URMs are more encouraged to apply even if they aren't quite up to snuff, because they have heard of Ivy League acceptances given to other URMs that aren't superhuman on account of their accomplishments. So, the URM applicant pool will be weaker. That would account for the seemingly modest admission rate increase given to URMs.

    I mean, just look at standardized test scores (I know, they're not everything, but they do tend to correlate with general amazing-ness. Acceptance rates for 2400 SAT are 50%, and that's no accident). There's a special National Achievement thing just for African Americans. Hispanics have something similar. In general, URMs have weaker credentials and that is the only reason why stuff like National Achievement exists. That indicates into a weaker applicant pool to the Ivies from URMs and subsequently an acceptance rate that is deceiving.

    Just lurk the results threads a little and you will start to see patterns emerge...
  • SuchwowmuchcoolSuchwowmuchcool Registered User Posts: 93 Junior Member
    edited May 2014
    @NewHavenCTmom‌ Man, that sure is racist. Please, no more straw men; you continue to argue against the Asian girl at your daughter's school that wasn't up to snuff. Great. Anyone, from what you've posted, will agree she wouldn't have gotten in whether there was affirmative action or not.

    What we're saying is that it is entirely possible that the reason your daughter was "shamed" was because of the injustice of the possibility of her taking the spot of an actually deserving non-URM kid on the basis of race. It is entirely likely that if the Ivies were banned from practicing affirmative action, URM enrollment rates would drop to <3%. Therefore, it is also a possibility that your daughter was one of the URMs that wouldn't have gotten into without her race.

    What if that possibility were true? Then she took the spot from some Asian kid that had better grades, worked harder, accomplished more, and displayed more potential just because she is Black. Obviously, we don't know enough about your daughter to make this assumption here, but it is possible that she stole the spot from someone that is more deserving. And that is what I feel indignation towards, as well as those who "shame". That's why they shame, and although it is ugly for kids to say it to her face, it isn't exactly a sin for them to believe it, because it is the truth. The truth is that hooked applicants get a sizable advantage without earning it.
  • GA2012MOMGA2012MOM Registered User Posts: 5,440 Senior Member
    Good lord, are we gonna start the "some URM" stole my spot crap again for the umpteenth time? Really?
  • lookingforwardlookingforward Registered User Posts: 30,585 Senior Member
    edited May 2014
    Suchwow, you know that "most competitive" colleges don't "rack 'em and stack 'em," right? Ie, they don't just look at score reports? You are far more focused on this aspect and need to consider what the app review process is really about, at schools that use holistic. Scores are a line or two, transcripts are a page or so. Think about the drives, perspectives and efforts a kid needs to show (not just claim) in the full 13-16+ pages of apps/supps. This isn't about being a hot shot in one's local hs. It's about what you convey in strengths to the college, about your potential to fit, thrive and contribute, in the ways that college looks for. Many of the vaulted 2400 kids fail to realize this.
  • picktailspicktails Registered User Posts: 442 Member
    Just seeing the poor quality of the writing here, my URM daughter (attending Penn this fall) blows you all away with her perfect essay scores on both the SAT and ACT. You have been fed, and believe, a liad of crap. As I have asked before, why are you just DYING to attend ivies and the like, when their admission policies are so contrary to your beliefs? Their values don't jive with yours, so find a better fit. Somewhere that agrees with your anecdotal, limited views and inherent superiority.
  • collegebound752collegebound752 Registered User Posts: 558 Member
    @Suchwowmuchcool, first off, I'm a National Achievement winner so watch what you say. Check the scores needed to earn the NA honor before you claim the standards are oh-so-lower.
  • gtownhopeful2016gtownhopeful2016 Registered User Posts: 160 Junior Member
    This has become heated, and it is all for no reason. All of the people who apply to and get accepted into the top universities are all extremely qualified and clearly have a chance at many other colleges. Once it gets to that level where you are an actual contender for a spot most colleges begin looking to see if you are an actual fit at the college because they already know you are qualified and can succeed. Apparently being an URM or Legacy isn't that effective because they are still minorities when they go to x institute. Besides this is America, some people have and always will be born with something that gives them an edge in a certain area- it's life here may as well get used to now while you can. No matter how much weight being a Legacy or URM carries in the application process, those people were picked because the school thought they would excel there and eventually bring fame and reputation to themselves, thus improving the school reputation.
  • streetcredstreetcred Registered User Posts: 89 Junior Member
    @takeitallin -- exactly - gotta get used to your child having to compete against other of all races and racial labeling (i.e the 'Asian girl), is completely wrong.
  • streetcredstreetcred Registered User Posts: 89 Junior Member
    edited May 2014
    so @picktails has a 'perfect' daughter as well. Is she getting a free ride because of her "URM" status as well..? My child is NOT dying to attend an Ivy We are happy he got a 20K merit scholarship - (oh not because he's black or whatever because he is SMART!!! ) scholarship to a 65K school and we have saved enough for four years so he doesn't have loans when he gets out. We aren't getting a free ride because of race, creed or color. I wouldn't say he is perfect or would blow anyone away (is that figure of speech you are using or do you mean 'blow' as in with a gun'?). Maybe THAT is a sense of entitlement URMs have - expecting a free ride.. Ugh so done with all you racists and those trying to live off the system - Pay your way like the rest of us, including those "Asians who think they are entitled" ..... See ya..
  • GA2012MOMGA2012MOM Registered User Posts: 5,440 Senior Member
    @streetcred‌ "See ya"

    Promise?
This discussion has been closed.