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Amherst and Brown???

PinkcollegePinkcollege 32 replies23 threads Junior Member
Hi I'm applying to these two schools and they are my hardest schools. I thought Brown was harder to get into but Amherst has a very low acceptance rate also, and from all of the ED people who got rejected with pretty similar stats to me, it feels like they very suddenly got super competitive. I thought that this school would be more doable than the Ivy but now I'm not sure if I have a chance at either.

I have 2310 sat, 790 bio sat and 800 sat lit but I saw so many people who eded with similar stats and got rejected and my ec's arent even that good. Has amherst suddenly jumped in selectivity? Or have I just been severely overestimating myself?
Should I even assume that I might do better at getting into Brown or just give up and cry in a hole by myself?
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Replies to: Amherst and Brown???

  • lesleymmmlesleymmm 23 replies0 threads New Member
    I wouldn't assume that. College chances are extremely unpredictable. I was rejected from Brown, but was accepted ED by Amherst with a 1940. What really matter are the essays, ecs, and recommendations.
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  • PinkcollegePinkcollege 32 replies23 threads Junior Member
    This is what everyone says and you probably have some amazing essays or ecs but honestly, all of mine are average to good. I have no hooks really, am I just looking out of my league?
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  • lostaccountlostaccount 5331 replies90 threads Senior Member
    Both those schools are very competitive. I don't think you could say one was more so than the other. I'd suggest just making sure you have a good number of other schools on your list and some safety school. Elite smaller colleges are not necessarily easier to get into even if objective stats give that appearance because they may have a more "self selected" pool of applicants-fewer but all of whom know the school well and have the characteristics that they know the student body is characterized as having.
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  • lesleymmmlesleymmm 23 replies0 threads New Member
    My essays weren't too great (I wrote one of them 2 hours before the deadline) and if you want to see my stats its on this link https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/questbridge-programs/1833620-2015-2016-questbridge-college-match-results-p2.html . Also, I saw the people who applied to ED and got rejected. Some of them had wayyyyyy better stats than me, but a lot of them were international students, which may have hurt them so I wouldn't base your chances too much on them. Just try, because your scores are pretty awesome and the worst they can say is no.
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  • PinkcollegePinkcollege 32 replies23 threads Junior Member
    lesley you are a urm and seem to have overcome many obstacles kudos
    you seem pretty awesome
    i am chinese and dont need fin aid soo
    lostaccount i know i thought i knew many of these schools well enough i only want to go to small lac
    idk i guess i am just dumb
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  • lesleymmmlesleymmm 23 replies0 threads New Member
    Thanks! but I feel like you arent completely out of your league, even if you're not URM. Are you done applying? if your still looking at possible schools that are good lac, Oberlin is really awesome and less selective. Plus looking at stats on college confidential always lowers people's self esteem and makes them think they can't get into schools. The other day, I saw someone with better stats than me being told that they shouldnt even consider college. Plus you dont see the people with less than perfect stuff all post their stuff on here often as people with amazing stats. Take their stats with a grain of salt and just hope for the best
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  • PinkcollegePinkcollege 32 replies23 threads Junior Member
    nope because i am having trouble writing my essay since i have so much pressure for it to be good :| but thank you that makes it a little better haha :P
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  • rmsdadrmsdad 101 replies8 threads Junior Member
    "am I just looking out of my league"
    Based on SAT scores, you are in the right range - breaking them down would help us a little as the CR & M are more important than CW. Also, how are your HS grades and class ranking? With these SAT scores, you have as good a chance as most anyone - which is low. The same is true for Brown.

    You can't change ECs at this point, but you can still work on your essays. Your lack of hooks doesn't mean that a hook doesn't exist. You need to get creative with showing who you are and what makes you special. It sounds to me like you need a good coach to help you present yourself in your best light. Statements like "i guess i am just dumb" and "just give up and cry in a hole by myself" need to be put behind you. Find (create) a reason why no college should be without you. You are unique and have special gifts to offer the world. Your parents and close friends can help you put those into words. Small LAC are looking for a individuals who are passionate about learning and enthusiastic about life. They want creative problem solvers who learn from their mistakes and become better people. They are looking for a diversity of brilliance - where do you shine? Good luck and don't give up until its over.
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  • lostaccountlostaccount 5331 replies90 threads Senior Member
    Pinkcollege, In my opinion, self depreciating remarks like "I am dumb" are best avoided. It is very good to become well informed and to apply widely. Nobody but the people in admissions can evaluate a candidate and make a determination. Large generic state schools are all about grades and scores. But LAC's and top universities consider a wide range of factors. There may be very compelling reasons a student with very high scores and grades was rejected-but you will never know why. It may be due to a bad fit overall, or a bad fit with the majors that are in need of students or it may be because they come from the wrong state or they had a lousy letter of recommendation or their 3.5 showed great grades in the humanities but lousy grades in the more rigorous classes (even if there are tons of rigorous classes). You just don't and won't know. In light of that, simply apply widely.
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  • Student901Student901 24 replies0 threads New Member
    Amherst is extremely selective. The average applicant ACT, for example, is 31. That would be a great # for an accepted pool. But that's the applicant pool.

    If you are unhooked, it's extremely difficult. It could probably be calculated, but a true unhooked applicant (NOT an athlete, URM, Pell Grant eligible, or legacy), the admit rate for you is going to probably be in the 5% range. I've read that if you don't have one of those hooks, you are in a pool of accepted applicants that average round 2300 SAT.

    There are roughly 565 varsity athletes. I think 10% legacies (180 students). Pell Grant eligible 20% (360). Black or Hispanic URM around 30% (560 students).

    That's 1665 students out of roughly 1800.

    Of course, some students are going to fall into multiple categories, so the 1665 "hooked" number is going to be less. But it's still a big number. Just the athletes alone take a lot of the spots and significantly reduce the number of available slots.

    A school like Brown (or even more so schools like Cornell) have this effect watered down. For example, at Brown only 17% are athletes, which is roughly half the % at Amherst. At Cornell (with 14,000 undergrads), the % of students that are varsity athletes is negligible.

    In addition, Cornell, Brown, etc. attract a lot of people who just "throw an application in" even thought they really have almost no chance. Some do at Amherst, Williams, etc., too, but there's no way it's as many.

    So the selectivity numbers, alone, can be misleading. For a true unhooked applicant (non athlete, non Pell, non URM, non legacy, non Questbridge), I'd say it's harder to get into Amherst than Brown.

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  • Student901Student901 24 replies0 threads New Member
    That being said, pinkcollege, if you have the courseload rigor and GPA to match that SAT, you'll be a serious contender at any school in the country. It will depend on all the other aspects of your application.
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  • PinkcollegePinkcollege 32 replies23 threads Junior Member
    @lesleymmm wow thats crazy, and thanks, i know cc isn't exactly the most confidence boosting place to look hahaha
    @rmsdad thank you that is amazing advice and a good way to approach and think about it, i have a lot of trouble being confident or even not self deprecating so thank you for these good ideas :)
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  • PinkcollegePinkcollege 32 replies23 threads Junior Member
    @Student901 thats not too encouraging is it too late to pick up a sport? :P
    thanks for analyzing those stats
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  • michigandermommichigandermom 49 replies0 threads Junior Member
    @Pinkcollege your excellent stats are your main hook - they put you in a slightly better position for those schools. For example, applicants to Amherst with SAT scores > 750 in any of the three areas were accepted at a slightly higher rate for the class of 2018, something like 20%-25%, which is higher than the general acceptance rate of 14%. (Stats taken from Amherst's website).

    You are not severely overestimating yourself - your stats are in or near the top 25% of all those schools. But even with such great stats your admittance will be somewhat of a lottery at these schools to which so many high stats students apply.

    I think your essays are the best way to make yourself stand out from the crowd, hopefully they will resonate with one of your admissions officers who will then be able to convince the admissions committee.

    My D had very similar stats & profile to you, and she was accepted RD to Amherst, Oberlin and UMichigan, but waitlisted at UChicago, Swarthmore and Wesleyan, and rejected at Yale, Harvard, and Northwestern. She would have been happy at any of those places (except Northwestern - for some silly reason I badgered her to apply there?), but lucked out in that Amherst was definitely one of her favorites and she is a first year student there now.
    If you analyze her record you can see that of all the schools she applied to with a < 20% acceptance rate, Amherst was the ONLY one to which she was admitted - that's 1/7, or 14%. She was accepted to both schools with a greater than 20% acceptance rate.

    Also, try to find some schools that you like that have higher acceptance rates. The lottery aspect of the super selective schools you've mentioned makes it diifficult to know which, if any you'll get into, but there are many great schools out there.

    Good luck!
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  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 13238 replies247 threads Senior Member
    Amherst seems to want kids who want Amherst and have something unique to contribute. Put a lot of thought into those essays, and think about what you could contribute to Amherst.
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  • spayurpetsspayurpets 870 replies4 threads Member
    Brown and Amherst are about equally hard to get into during the RD round. (Amherst is quite a bit easier ED but since they take in about 1/2 of their class ED, the RD round is very selective--like Brown, sub-10%) My DD1, an Asian Am with a 2340 SAT and 4.2W GPA was waitlisted by Amherst but accepted at Brown and Dartmouth RD (attending Brown). I thought Amherst waitlisted her because she was unlikely to attend/lack of interest, but who knows really. At this level, there is little rhyme or reason to the admissions decisions and trying to predict the outcome is not possible.
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  • spayurpetsspayurpets 870 replies4 threads Member
    edited January 2016
    For your reference, last year Amherst had a 35.4% acceptance rate ED and 12.5% acceptance rate RD. Brown had a 18.5% acceptance rate ED and 7.6% acceptance rate RD.
    edited January 2016
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  • bsalumbsalum 533 replies18 threads Member
    edited January 2016
    Hmmm, I read similar stats but if your not an athlete, the chances are probably about the same.

    https://www.****/the-ivy-coach-blog/ivy-league/2019-brown-early-decision-admission-rate/

    Article says 28% of Brown Early Admits are athletes. I'm willing to bet because of the size of the school and the need to field teams that Amherst Early Admits are at least 50% athletes (maybe more). I do not see any mention of athletic recruits though to verify my hunch.

    http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=article/2015/02/01/172-enter-class-2019-through-early-decision
    edited January 2016
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  • bsalumbsalum 533 replies18 threads Member
    edited January 2016
    btw- I don't think you are overestimating yourself. I just think that perhaps you are underestimating Amherst. Amherst has been this competitive for years.
    edited January 2016
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  • 8bagels8bagels 401 replies0 threads Member
    edited January 2016
    It would be interesting to see how many of the ED admits at Amherst are athletes.

    I agree, it would be a big number, probably close to 50%.

    But IMO there's no way that stat would ever be made public.

    But you can get some sense from the stats. I've read that 35%+ of the students at Amherst are varsity athletes. That's appx. 630 students, or 157 students per class. The ED round admits around 165-170 students. So even if only half of the athletes on campus are admitted during the ED round (which is probably a low estimate), they are taking close to 50% of the ED slots.

    The selectivity at the Amherst, Williams, Swats etc. and Ivies these days (for non-athletes) is absolutely insane. Top 1%-2% stats are now "average" at these places, and alone aren't enough to get in.

    edited January 2016
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