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APUSH. Hamilton vs Jefferson.

lil_killer129lil_killer129 Registered User Posts: 4,706 Senior Member
edited January 2006 in AP Tests Preparation
Who do you think had a better vision for the United States and why?
Post edited by lil_killer129 on

Replies to: APUSH. Hamilton vs Jefferson.

  • kchenkchen Registered User Posts: 4,236 Senior Member
    This is based on opinion, but for me, I'd say Hamilton.

    x strong central government to maintain order and preserve Union
    x tariffs & excise taxes to pay government debt
    x national bank
    x Hamilton's financial program
    x loose interpretation of constitution
    x large peacetime army & navy

    similar to what we have today.
  • ashernmashernm Registered User Posts: 986 Member
    I prefer Jefferson's policies, for the reasons kchen stated. Hamilton is the statist/mercantilist and Jefferson the agrarian classical liberal/whig. Asking your preference is to ask your position: are you a statist or minarchist (for a minimal state)?

    But Hamilton was far more correct in his predictions, as contemporary society is hardly agrarian (About 2% of jobs are in farming), and more industrial, but even more so comprised of services, which neither imagined.
  • jimbob1225jimbob1225 Registered User Posts: 3,457 Senior Member
    Jefferson....I'm a democrat! Hamiltonians...go big business Republicans? I prefer my rights, hehehe. Sorry to make this political I guess.

    Oh BTW, soooooooo funny:
    My history teacher was impersonating Jefferson, and I was impersonating Hamilton (we were doing a "conversation" as an educational thing, you know...)
    My Teacher: So, Hamilton, what do you think of the bank?
    Me: I think the national bank is a delicious idea. Maybe even as delicious as Sally Hemings [Jefferson's black slave and lover]
    Teacher: Well, my wife died, and I needed--I needed--
    Me: Chocolate.
    Teacher: WHAT??!!?
    Me: Ooooooooops.Hehe just kidding.
  • kchenkchen Registered User Posts: 4,236 Senior Member
    In the beginning, I preferred Hamilton's way.

    However, Jefferson and his followers began to expand their views, and soon, the Federalists died out. It was then that I supported the Anti-Federalist view.
  • holly_golightly3holly_golightly3 Registered User Posts: 9 New Member
    Along with the above reasons (posted by kchen), Hamilton because he envisioned an urban, industrial society, much like what America has become today. Jefferson, on the other hand, envisioned an agrarian society.
  • ashernmashernm Registered User Posts: 986 Member
    jimbob1225, Jefferson was not a leftist. The contemporary analogue is libertarian (though it may differ a bit), between libertarianism and classical liberalism. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
    Jefferson's political philosophy, ie. classical liberalism, has almost no representatives in modern politics, except possibly one in Congress, Ron Paul. And classical liberalism has no home on the one dimensional right-left continuum, although it tends to have more adherents on the right.

    The occurrence of Hamilton's predictions do not make his positions any more valid.
  • coolg49964coolg49964 Registered User Posts: 103 Junior Member
    That's why the traditional left-right continuum is so flawed! It takes into account the socio-economic position, but not the authoritative/anarchist scale. The only ACCURATE way to measure a politician's position relative to other leaders is with a two dimensional plot. For example, Stalin is viewed by many to be a member of the far-right, because he was so staunch an authoritarian, but economically he was incredibly Liberal. In reality, he was a member of Authoritarian Left, as opposed to the Libertarian, Jeffersonian Left.

    For more information, go to PoliticalCompass.com
  • lil_killer129lil_killer129 Registered User Posts: 4,706 Senior Member
    Wow. You guys are really intelligent. I have no idea what you guys are saying. I only understand post #2.
  • ashernmashernm Registered User Posts: 986 Member
    "It takes into account the socio-economic position" Civil/social liberty, like the freedom of speech, is not socioeconomic - it seems valuable to both the poor and the rich, to oversimplify. And in general, laissez-faire economies provide more wealth than more statist alternatives. Stalin was an extreme leftist economically, and an authoritarian socially.
  • coolg49964coolg49964 Registered User Posts: 103 Junior Member
    Exactly! You answered your own argument there.

    The FLAW with the 1789 French Assembly Left/Right scale is that it doesn't take into account the authoritative/libertarian perspective, and you have groupings like Ghandi, Walt Brown, and Stalin in the same region.

    Even more troublingly, what is left and what is right in MODERN Russia? Do the Stalinists fit on the left, because they are communists, or on the right, because they are so conservative/authoritarian at the same time? Do Russian reformers go on the left, as they are inherently liberal, or on the right, because they ARE trying to move Russia to a freer-market stance? Weren't FDR and Stalin both technically to the left of other major figures of the day? The only way to contrast these seemingly diametrically opposed leaders is by comparing the "authoritarian-ness" of each leader. The only accurate way to plot politicians is with two axes. The X-axis, for example, measures left/right position and the Y-axis measures the fasco/anarchist scale. In this case, FDR and Stalin would both fit on the left, but one high and the other low on the Y axis...
  • GandhijiGandhiji Registered User Posts: 713 Member
    Jefferson was so overrated, HAMILTON you can talk about him so much more on an essay :P
  • tellallyourfriendstellallyourfriends Registered User Posts: 224 Junior Member
    next time you pay something with 10$ bills say: You can call me Aaron Burr cause I'm dropping Hamiltons. =)
  • kchenkchen Registered User Posts: 4,236 Senior Member
    I loved that SNL skit.
  • kchenkchen Registered User Posts: 4,236 Senior Member
    I have no idea what you guys are saying. I only understand post #2.
    Hey, thanks!
This discussion has been closed.