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July 1st expectations - swimming

ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
I know there are several swim parents on here. My s15 has had a significant amount of email correspondence with coaches and has gone to 6 junior days. All of the coaches from the junior days are continuing to be in contact with him. He was very highly ranked after his sophomore year but ended up with mono his junior year and didn't have good swims at nationals. But the coaches still seem to be interested. The emails are all "personal" - one on one type emails. So, my question is - is it ok to assume that these coaches will call the first week of July? I just want what is best for my son and the bad junior year scares me even though everyone keeps telling him and us that it is ok.

For swim parents - how did your swimmers "before July 1st" and " after July 1st" activity correlate?
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Replies to: July 1st expectations - swimming

  • GrudeMonkGrudeMonk Registered User Posts: 190 Junior Member
    For my son there was almost no activity after he updated his coaches about his big meets in May until July 1st. On July 1st and 2nd I believe every coach he was in contact with did give him a phone call. You can put your fears to rest. The coaches will want to see how serious your son is about the school they represent. This they can start to determine as of July 1st.

    Has your son determined which school or schools are at the top of his list? My son was ready and was honest with all the coaches about which two schools he wanted to attend. Those that were not at the top of his list stopped calling and I was worried at the time that neither of the top two would come through in the end. It did end up working out great. Good luck to your son!
  • barbfam1barbfam1 Registered User Posts: 99 Junior Member
    DS1 was a recruited swimmer. He was not recruited by the top swimming schools, ie Stanford, Cal- Berkeley, Mich, but had good enough times for Ivy teams and other D1 similar teams (Duke) and top DIII (Williams). He got calls exactly beginning at 10am ON July 1 after his junior year, but did not have any coach-initiated contact before then. Before July 1, they all followed the rules of not initiating contact, but they were very responsive to emails prior to that date.

    I think the coaches understand that many kids have an off season in their career, whether it be due to sickness, injury, or concentrating on academics, and the good news is that now he can not get mono again in college. That is actually a bonus to a college coach. One of my son's friends was recruited to tippy top Ivy with his NCAA DI cuts and the kid got mono as a freshman, ruining his entire first season. I bet that coach wished the kid got mono in high school!

    Of course, coaches might wanna watch his LC season carefully this summer, and not really, truly commit to putting him on their "list" for ED admissions until after LC is over in August. But if he had fast times as sophomore, they are certainly going to court him now - no harm in that from their POV. And, fyi, we visited Duke in late March of my son's jr year. The coach said he was working hard with admissions to get a kid in for RD who had just done spectacularly in March of his SENIOR year - dropping tons of time and moving him from good to amazing. So coach was even working on getting an RD kid in who didn't shine in the pool til senior yr. This is of course, somewhat unusual as most swimmers are brought in for ED admits, but...

    Good luck with recruiting season!
  • suerosesuerose Registered User Posts: 18 New Member
    Is the rule that they can't call prior to 7/1 or can't initiate contact of any type, including email?
  • 1HappyDad1HappyDad Registered User Posts: 43 Junior Member
    ahsmuch - If your son is swimming at nationals as a sophomore in high school, I think the coaches you are talking to are being genuine when they say they aren't worried about him having mono his junior year. They know what he is capable of. And if he is still dedicated to the sport, what he will be doing again soon. I'd be surprised if there was a college coach on the planet that wasn't familliar with mono and the arc of recovery. Many NCAA champions had it at one time or another. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

    suerose - Our child is a rising senior as of today, so we are going through the process now. But I'll share some of what we've learned. The rules are different for D1, D2, and D3. For D1 swimming recruiting, the coaches may not initiate a phone call until July 1 after the junior year of HS. Coaches can respond to e-mail, and at a minimum they can send e-mail about their program, school, etc.. I'm not sure about what, if any, boudaries there are on coach initiated e-mails. Prior to July 1, you can speak to a coach as much as you wish if you are on campus -- But if you run into one at a meet, you can't do any more than exchange pleastries. You can also initiate a phone call, and it is perfectly acceptable to arrange a time when the swimmer will call the coach. Our experience is that coaches are really responsive, straightforward, and good to talk to.

    D3 rules are not quite so limiting.

    Do a google search on NCAA swimming recruiting rules and you'll find multiple sources on USASwimming and NCAA websites. I wouldn't be surprised if your child's club website has a bunch of this info too.

    If your child is a rising Sr., and they haven't already done so, I recommend he/she contact the coach at each school he/she is interested in. I'm not sure how many calls I'd expect out of the blue come July. There are a lot of swimmers out there, so the coaches need help with knowing who is interested...
  • ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
    Thanks for the responses. My son hasn't really had a chance to explain his mono but maybe he will once he starts talking to them. We actually took him to the doctor 4 days after nationals and that is when he was diagnosed. He absolutely hates when people make excuses but I told him this is a pretty good one.
    Yes he has about 6 schools that he is interested in. He will probably have some he has to politely say no thanks but I feel the same way of limiting it too much. One of the coaches at the junior day did say that they want to know if they are in the top 3 or not. That's probably fair but they are certainly recruiting more than they can sign too.
  • ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
    His club coach did emphasize to us that his LC nationals needs to be good (this was not when our son was in the room). He works really hard and they stepped up his training big time this year. The coaches now think they. At have stepped it up too much because he is still a skinny distance swimmer - not built like a college kid yet!
  • barbfam1barbfam1 Registered User Posts: 99 Junior Member
    Yes, DS1 is same kind of distance swimmer. He was 5'9" and 125 pounds in HS. I think your son's coaches are right about training your son too hard; the season my son swam his best in HS was actually the year that it snowed several times a week and practice was always canceled. I still have no idea how he swam out of his mind that year but ever since, I thought that coaches may be overtraining these elite HS distance swimmers.

    Definitely have him email coaches to let them know of his interest now - only the tippy top swimmers should expect cold calls on July 1. My son had already initiated meetings (with my urgings) with about 6 coaches in his junior year, so they could associate a name with a face (and I made him email these coaches every few months with updated times, scores, etc). We did go to see two schools/meet coaches in early June, so he was fresh in those coaches' minds - maybe you can do that now? After July 1, he very quickly narrowed his choices down to 3, and then down to 2, which made me nervous (as they were Williams and Brown), but he did not want to lead a coach on and only had time for 2 recruiting trips. We knew that coaches were probably leading some kids on and that is the way the game is played, but in the end, he felt badly enough telling ONE coach he had chosen the other school...

    And just to clarify, I think that OP is talking about YMCA Nationals, not US Senior nationals, correct? Just making US Senior Nat QTs as a male HS junior is amazing, and virtually all college coaches would take note, whereas YMCA Nationals includes kids from a wider range of abilities. But it is true that any kid even with YNat cuts can expect to be recruitable somewhere! Just probably would not expect cold calls if they are middle of the pack at YNats and if that is the case, his showing interest by emailing, calling, or visiting now would be critical. Once he gets to know the coaches a bit, he can explain the mono.
  • ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
    Yes I do mean YMCA nationals but he did get top 8 in his best events as a sophomore but didn't have senior national cuts! He had four junior national cuts as a sophomore. He has been in active, one-on-one email correspondence with the coaches since September. They seem to always respond to him and sometimes they initiate the emails so I guess that is good.

    As far as his training, he is 5'10" and about 140 so a little bigger than Barham but he has been gaining some weight this summer. We don't talk much about his training at home because he likes it to be between him and his coaches but we know the coach really well so we are talking to him too.
  • 1HappyDad1HappyDad Registered User Posts: 43 Junior Member
    barbfam1 - Really nice post. Would you be willing to share some more information about which school your son chose and why? As well as how he feels about the decision now. FWIW I suspect we have some common friends.

    Also I didn't catch the distinction between Sr. Nats and Y Nats. I was assuming it was Sr. Nats and it was helpful that you clarified.
  • 1HappyDad1HappyDad Registered User Posts: 43 Junior Member
    Asmouh - Ugh, when I read this: "His club coach did emphasize to us that his LC nationals needs to be good (this was not when our son was in the room). He works really hard and they stepped up his training big time this year.", I felt your pain.

    Some people have been/are winding up our son about the importance of his times at his HS championships (CA just finished this a couple weeks ago) and this summer (he can't go to J Nats because of a conflict and the slight detail that while he's very close with a bunch of bonus times, he's still missing an actual summer J Nat cut...sheesh details). It's hard not to get sucked into this pressure. I know it's a struggle for us. But what I can do is share some of the best advice we've received from some parents who went through this before us. But first the story from which the advice springs:

    Their son was a J Nat level swimmer and he had excellent grades and scores. Unfortunately, he got it in his head that he wanted Harvard and fixated on that. Harvard swimming will support somewhere between 6-8 male swimmers. Our friend's son was about 9 or 10 in the Harvard recruit pecking order (and believe me it was based on time, as this kid's AI was very high), and Harvard basically told him he needed to post some times at summer Jrs.. He swam best times, but not by much. Unfortunately, everybody above this kid on Harvard's list decided Harvard was the place for them, so he never received support -- It was a kind of painful waiting process to see who above him would/wouldn't committ eventually ending in big disappointment. What ultimately happened was this boy wound up at another Ivy. When I think about the kid and the school, I persoanlly think it's a mcuh better fit for him , and as far as I'm concerned, this kid hit the lotto. He feels that way now too.

    The parent's advice to us in all of this was: Just be sure to remind your son that there are a lot of great schools out there and there isn't just one right school and try not to get his heart set on just one (it's amazing in retrospect how many kids that don't get into their first choice look back and say that it worked out for the best). There are 500ish colleges with men's swim team. Some are so fast that very few HS kids in the country are capable of even making the travel team for dual meets (Think: Cal, Michigan, Stanford, Texas...) and there are plenty more where your son will be the star. When we had the conversation with our son about his list of schools, he realized that with the times he already had, he was getting nice interest from some schools the we all think would be a great fit for him. And that helps...

    So I think the real questions are what is your son really looking for in a school and why, and where does swimming ultimately fit into the bigger picture of his life? And then from there I'm willing to bet there are at least a couple of schools where the coaches will be thrilled to have and to support him with the times he already has. From what you've written so far, it really sounds like a lot of coaches are already very interested. Good luck! I hope you will continue to share your story.
  • ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
    @1happydad. Thanks for your great response. Sounds like you are going through the same things as we are! My son is a good student - not great but has about a 3.8 and is taking his AcT again for the second time in June. He has gotten a lot from Ivy and really has no interest. He is more of a big school rah rah kind of school. He wants to study business so that leaves it pretty wide open. He really has a strong desire to fit in with the team. His teammates are by far his best friends now and he is looking for that in the next team. And honestly, scholarship will be important to a point. He does have one school that he has been a "fan" of since he was little and that would be his "dream" but we will see. He was invited to junior day and went (it's 800 miles away) and is keeping in touch with the coach. He is a distance swimmer and the team is known for sprinting so it actually gives him a better chance.

    How about your son? Does he want Ivy? D1?
  • ResearchmumResearchmum Registered User Posts: 109 Junior Member
    edited June 2014
    @ahsmuoh, hi again:). I suspect you are probably reading things correctly, and that the continued interest is genuine. As you know, we are in the 'same boat', and so I don't have any past experience to share. What we have experienced with the D1 schools however, is some coaches asking for transcripts and scores (the more academic schools), and others saying - look forward to talking after 1 July. I have taken both of these moves to indicate continued interest.

    On the other hand, we also had one that emailed and said my S didn't meet their consideration times. As it is, S's best and main event is in a stroke where the conversion tables to yards are unreliable. They give different results and even the best of them seem to give really poor conversion values from LCM, which is what we have. Some coaches whose swimmers swim LC regularly understand the times, but this one it seems does not, so even though S has a US Senior National cut, and there are only 2 swimmers (16/17 till August - I.e. Proper to the class of 2015) registered to USA swimming with faster times LC, and they are both 17, with S still 16, he got that email. In fairness the coach said continue to email us with your progress etc.

    I had told S that I am only paying for him to apply to 6 schools, and so this lack of understanding of LC times helped him decide with this school which although was in his top 12, was closer to the bottom than the top. He therefore with my full blessing, unsubscribed from the school's frontrush. He would really rather just deal with 2-4 schools but advice on this board says to try and keep all options open, and so I have urged him to not say 'no' unless it was a clear and definite no-no. As he still has substantially more schools than he can apply to or even wants to be dealing with, I think he was a bit relieved that I let him cut ties. My reasoning was that if a Coach doesn't understand him (and what he is capable of) because he has never swum in yards before, it really doesn't bode well for a successful relationship going forwards.

    Anyways, I guess what I am saying is if they are not keen, you would probably know by now. Good Luck with it all and it is fantastic that your S has kept his interest going even after having mono.
  • ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
    Thanks researchmum I am glad to have a couple other parents to bounce things off of. It seems that most of our friends that have gone through this have girl swimmers and that is a little different because they have so much more scholarship money. I am assuming that you are not in the US? Does you son definitely want to come to the US? Seems to be a lot do international swimmers at the schools my son is looking at. If you son had a senile national cut- he is really fast for a 16 year old! Goodluck and I hope to keep their thread moving throughout the process.
  • ResearchmumResearchmum Registered User Posts: 109 Junior Member
    edited June 2014
    @ahsmuoh‌, yes, boys seem to have a totally different ride. S definitely wants to attend university in the US. Me, I am not so sure he should, but reluctantly recognise it is not about me, and so I am trying to support him as best I can without driving myself mad with worry in the process. He is my youngest and I really would rather that he wasn't that far away from home - we are from the UK.

    Yes, he is fast right now (and nearly 17 too), but as we know, nothing in sport, especially swimming, is guaranteed, so we just try to take each day as it comes. I try to encourage him to enjoy the experience (his times have opened up some superb opportunities for him here) whilst keeping his feet firmly on the ground.

    Has your S tried Open Water events? Our distance swimmers are encouraged to try OW events, and they go to so many exotic destinations. Seriously, the other pool swimmers are so jealous of them!

    I really hope it goes well for your S through this recruitment journey; from what you have posted and PM'd me, I am sure it will :D
  • ahsmuohahsmuoh Registered User Posts: 1,346 Senior Member
    Actually he is doing his foster open water event in a couple weeks. The team has just never done them before so he might find that he likes it. In the pool, he is better the longer the race so maybe this could be his thing.
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