Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.

Is it time for the Ivy league to offer football scholarships?

moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
It's been a few years now(2013) since the Patriot League has gone to offering scholarships save Georgetown. Last year the Patriot teams went 7-3 vs Ivy schools(almost 8-2 except Princeton's 35-31 victory) including scores of 49-28, 63-35 and 55-13 vs PENN, Princeton, Harvard and Yale with Colgate, Fordham and especially Lehigh dominating victories. At some point you would think the coaches and alumni would become frustrated and want to change the playing field. If this trend continues do you think it is time for the Ivy schools to consider giving out football scholarships to draw back top recruits? Now I'm not advocating dropping the AI for admittance standards mind you.

On a side not I don't think it's a coincidence that Georgetown(who doesn't offer scholarships) is the doormat of the Patriot League. Almost unfair playing field for them to try and compete vs other Patriot schools.
«13456

Replies to: Is it time for the Ivy league to offer football scholarships?

  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    You're probably correct but I can't see them taking a butt whipping every year going forward and doing nothing about it. I could see them getting to the point of not even scheduling games vs Patriot if it continues. Do you see any other way of them trying to level the recruiting playing field?
  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    edited May 2017
    Even in basketball they have evolved(even though it took forever) to allow an automatic bid for the NCAA tourney which they refused forever. Also the hiring of a top basketball coach has helped tremendously for recruiting.
  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    From PENN coach Al Bagnoli "There's very few need-based teams left for us to play," said Penn coach Al Bagnoli in a conference call at Lafayette's annual media luncheon Tuesday. "We have to decide philosophically how to proceed. I hope this isn't the last game between Lafayette and Penn but the Ivy League is caught in a no-man's land."
  • DadTwoGirlsDadTwoGirls Registered User Posts: 4,559 Senior Member
    I vote NO.

    For a very large university (Texas A&M, U.Michigan) it would seem that they can hand out football scholarships without diluting their academic strength. However, I think that the academically strongest universities should focus on academics and not try to be football superpowers. It has long bugged me that Stanford (where I got my master's) gives scholarships and preference in admissions to football players.
  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    @DadTwoGirls Not sure why they can't do both. Besides Stanford as you mentioned there is also Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame etc...Now they have all remained academic powerhouses not necessarily football powerhouses. However they have remained top academic schools but greatly increased their national prominence in football.
  • skieuropeskieurope Super Moderator Posts: 38,536 Super Moderator
    edited May 2017
    Do you see any other way of them trying to level the recruiting playing field?
    I'm not sure these colleges are interested in leveling the playing field.
    Even in basketball they have evolved(even though it took forever) to allow an automatic bid for the NCAA tourney which they refused forever.
    Certainly they could consider allowing post-season play in football. I don't see that happening anytime soon (although IMO it will happen before athletic scholarships), since obviously that impacts preparation for finals, which is not a consideration for basketball.
    From PENN coach Al Bagnoli
    Former Penn coach (now at Columbia)
    Also the hiring of a top basketball coach has helped tremendously for recruiting.
    A top football or basketball coach costs money. I'm certainly not suggesting that Tim Murphy or Tommy Amaker aren't making money hand over fist - they are. But they are certainly not in the Mike Krzyzewski ballpark, nor do I think alumni would want that either.
  • nhparent9nhparent9 Registered User Posts: 191 Junior Member
    YES - they absolutely should, subject to the aforementioned academics and admission requirements not being reduced. Handing out scholarships in the Ivy will hardly result in them threatening to be football superpowers. If they can maintain admissions standards and become football superpowers, all the better.
  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone Registered User Posts: 19,568 Senior Member
    The Ivies don't offer scholarships in other sports either, and they are very competitive in many - rowing, squash, lacrosse, hockey. Some D1 schools don't even have football. If the Ivies are happy competing against each other, why not continue as they are?
  • CU123CU123 Registered User Posts: 2,741 Senior Member
    edited May 2017
    They need to drop to Div III in football, there they would be competitive. They can keep the other Div I sports that they are already competitive in.

    @twoinanddone Because their football players are at risk of getting hurt when they play outside the Ivy league against scholarship players.
  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    Plus you wouldn't have enough games(7) to only compete against other Ivy schools.
  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    The fact that a great deal of top academic schools are also highly successful in football by handing out scholarships should be a template. Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Michigan, Rice etc...I believe Stanford gives athletic scholarships while also offering top FA that are along the same lines of Ivy schools.
  • CU123CU123 Registered User Posts: 2,741 Senior Member
    There are two routes to follow. The Stanford route or the UChicago route, tweeners will only get you embarrassed.
  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone Registered User Posts: 19,568 Senior Member
    They need to drop to Div III in football, there they would be competitive.

    They can't pick and choose divisions. If you are D1, you play D1 for everything, or you play club (and are there Club football teams? I don't think so). If you drop to D3, it is for everything.

    There was an exception for 4 hockey teams to stay D1 in 1970ish. Then there was another rule put in to let D3 schools play one male and one female team up to D1, but the team had to already be playing at that level and there are some rules about scholarships (Hopkins offers them for lax, but other schools can't offer for hockey, title IX considerations, etc.).

    I don't see the problem. Harvard football plays at a lower level, and they are okay with that. They are never going to be Notre Dame or Stanford, but they play the other Ivies and 4-5 other schools that are at about their level.
  • moscottmoscott Registered User Posts: 962 Member
    1. I don't think the coaches are ok with that
    2. The 4-5 other schools USED to be at their level...then they started handing out football scholarships and have risen above the Ivy league.
    3. Why exactly would they never be a ND or Stanford? They would have said the same back when the Ivy league dominated college football. In fact the Pac 12 comes extremely close to where they should aspire with Stanford, USC, UCLA, Berkeley, UW as top academic schools who also excel at football and all give football scholarships.
«13456
This discussion has been closed.