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Ivy Sports - recruitment process advice

TitliestTitliest 10 replies3 threads New Member
So my daughter has been approached by HYP for a sport. We're international. She's in her final of high school. On paper, in terms of sporting performance, academic performance, relative to peers, etc, she should get accepted into all.
She has already been on an early official visit to one of the 3 and they have verbally offered a slot. We're currently in the process of formal early academic/financial pre-reads, as part of the process. The other 2 opportunities are moving much slower, albeit the communication lines are open. To what extent should we inform the other 2 about the situation with the 1st.

All things are pointing to her wanting to go to the school she's already had the visit, for a variety of great reasons. She's more curious about seeing the other schools, or at least one of them, to ensure she's made the right decision
Any advice on communications strategy with other 2, in terms of if we should push, what we should tell them, etc?
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Replies to: Ivy Sports - recruitment process advice

  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23393 replies17 threads Senior Member
    You should poke them. Ivies can start working on likely letters on July 1, and students spend the late summer and early fall picking from among the offers, talking to the coaches, talking to others on the team. Because you are international, it might take a little more to arrange a visit. Nov and the official application will come soon.

    I'm sure they know about the other schools, or at least suspect. Always be honest that you have visited another school if asked because the coaches all know each other.
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    edited May 2017
    Ivys can do formal pre reads beginning July 1 after junior year. They can not do likely letters until October 1 senior year. Official visits can not occur until Sept 1 of senior year. So your daughter has likely had an unofficial pre read by the admissions liason to the athletic department at the one school. It is likely that a formal pre read will occur at that school this summer. For that process you will need an unofficial transcript, senior class schedule and all test reports. Some schools will extend committable offers before the July pre read process, others are more reticient to do so. Of the three mentioned, and based on my experience, Yale is most likely to move early while Harvard and particularly Princeton are more reticent. There has been vast debate on this board about whether the published timelines mean anything, and whether there is a seperate "real" recruiting timeline in the Ivy. While that may be interesting in the abstract, I don't know how much it matters to your circumstances. What you should keep in your mind though is that the athletic department/admissions relationship at the Ivys, and at HYP in particular, can be very quirky. Every year there are stories here about kids who were told early on that they were solid with admissions who are left without a likely letter in the fall. Not at all saying that is a probable outcome, and in fact in my own personal experience I found all of the Ivy coaches to be very honest and forthright, but it is a possibility that you should keep in mind.

    As to your specific question, I believe it is wise to advise the two schools who have not extended an offer that an offer is on the table. I think this because in the "pre offer" phase, all of the advantages lie with the coaches. There is no pressure to offer a kid until such time as the coach is aware that the kid has open offers on the table from peer schools. Having that information may prod a coach on the fence to pull the trigger and offer, in hopes that the athlete will not slip away. I don't know that I would initiate contact to do so, but I am sure your daughter is having pretty regular e-mail conversations with the coaches at this stage. I would advise her to disclose the offer the next time she hears from the coaches at the other two schools. I understand the concern about appearing pushy, and I am not an advocate for flat out asking for an offer. I think the chances of mis-communication, and perhaps a bit of "fudging", go way up when a recruit or worse a recruit's parents get very aggressive about offers. But I do think it is appropriate to let the schools know an offer has been made, and even to give the other schools a sort of "soft" deadline to make up their minds. As an example, when my son got his first offer at a school he was seriously considering, he told all the other schools recruiting him that an offer was on the table and that he "really wanted to wrap up his recruiting" by the begining of his senior year. I though this was a fairly polite way of telling the other coaches involved to basically poop or get off the pot.
    edited May 2017
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  • crimsonmom2019crimsonmom2019 218 replies1 threads Junior Member
    ' ....basically poop or get off the pot.'

    I thought only my mom used that phrase but she said (excuse the language in advance) 'piss'. LOL
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    @crimsonmom2019, in real life I don't say poop either, lol.
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  • TitliestTitliest 10 replies3 threads New Member
    Advised the other schools of the verbal offer. Received official visit invites from both within 24 hours. This really is one big high stakes game. So much of what I've read has not been correct. But the advice from people like yourself has been very helpful. Thanks.
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    edited June 2017
    Glad things are moving along for your daughter. You are right, it is a high stakes game. As much as we hear about how "easy" athletes have it in the Ivy admissions game, the truth is that very few kids can thread the particular needle of D1 talent and serious academic chops. Looking at it from the other end, the best part about the process is it will be over about the time all of your daughter's non athlete friends start freaking out over colleges. I know my son appreciated the fact that he could kick back over Thanksgiving and winter break senior year (to be honest, he kind of kicked back ALL of senior year, lol) while most of his buddies were busy writing application essays.

    If I could offer any advice, it would be to do what you can to understand the process at each school, and more importantly what stage your daughter is in within that process. In my experience, all the Ivy coaches were very forthcoming in how the process worked at their schools, and provided very detailed information to questions like "Where are we in the process, and what are the next steps"? I will admit that at the time I thought some of it sounded like BS, but once it was over I remember looking back and thinking "man, that went exactly the way coach x said it would at the junior day/unofficial visit/camp". In general, I am a huge fan of asking clear and specific questions, and listening closely to the specific answers. Again, and understanding that this is not a universal opinion, I found that the Ivy coaches were very frank with my son, and provided accurate information in response to fair questions. Sometimes, you may not appreciate the answers (like the coach who told my son at a junior day that he had 4-5 spots and was looking at 10 kids), but it is all part of the process.

    edited June 2017
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  • tonymomtonymom 1119 replies55 threads Senior Member
    @Ohiodad51 nailed it!
    It will be a huge relief to be done early :-)

    And coaches are, for the most part, very frank. They have to be as news of missteps travel fast.
    Only additional piece of information I'd give is to remember your student athlete is a student first, athlete second. Take all the OVs offered to get a clear sense of the school vibe and team culture. We had our son make a good old fashioned list of pros/cons. Sometimes it comes down to a gut feeling.
    Good luck!
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23393 replies17 threads Senior Member
    My daughter was offered her scholarship and the option to sign the NLI in the early period. I asked the coach what the benefit would be to signing in Nov rather than April. She told me there would be no additional money, that it didn't really matter, but that it is nice to be done with the process. She was SO right. I think my daughter would have spent 5 months flipping and flopping and ended up right where she did if she'd kept recruiting open until April. Both of my kids did (early) rolling admissions and we were done.
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  • moscottmoscott 895 replies108 threads Senior Member
    @Ohiodad51 @tonymom @twoinanddone Keep in mind the early signing date has now been approved and kids can sign beginning December 20-22. Also prospects can now start taking official visits on April 1 of their Junior years.
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    @moscott, the early signing date that @twoinanddone is referring to is the November date for all sports other than football, basketball, soccer and men's water polo (never did understand why that is included). If memory serves, the signing period is open for a week for those sports and then closes again until late spring. Also, do you know if the Ivy has changed their rule about official visits to harmonize with the NCAA changes? I haven't seen anything on that, but I haven't really looked either.
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  • moscottmoscott 895 replies108 threads Senior Member
    @Ohiodad51 I'm not really sure but would assume so since it was approved by the CCA which governs the National Letter of Intent program.
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  • moscottmoscott 895 replies108 threads Senior Member
    @Ohiodad51 Apparently it is yes for Ivy as well at least according to this article:

    http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/2017/05/what-will-it-mean.html
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    Thanks @moscott. I get what Teevins is saying there. I know when my son was getting recruited, the Dartmouth coaches talked alot about being on a quarter system putting them at a disadvantage with the Ivy official visit calendar(for football, no schools did official visits until after the season) . This probably helps Dartmouth. It also probably accelerates the calendar a little bit too though. Not sure how the early officials will work with the no pre reads until July date either.
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  • politepersonpoliteperson 363 replies4 threads Member
    @Ohiodad51 @moscott This change only affects football, corrrect? Or are other sports affected by any of these changes?
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23393 replies17 threads Senior Member
    Basketball changed to an early signing period too (several years ago), but for some reason it is still listed separately from 'all other sports' on the NCAA charts. http://www.nationalletter.org/signingDates/future.html No one has ever understood those special snowflakes of men's waterpolo having their own signing date.

    Do the Ivies have a signing/commitment date other than ED for admissions? The NCAA doesn't control the dates when admissions sends the letters or requires the deposit to be sent in.
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    Basketball's dates are different because they represent the NCAA's first efforts to grapple with early recruiting and the influence of camp directors/traveling team coaches.

    I do not know but believe the spring official visit rules apply to all sports. It's hard to find anything about it generally because everything I have seen discusses the change in relation to football, which is the obvious 300 pound gorilla (and cash cow) for the NCAA.

    The Ivy has no official commitment date at all. Some here will tell you that Ivy schools require an ED application in exchange for a likely letter, but while that may be the common process, it is not a requirement based on my experience. So technically, my son for example could have decommitted and went elsewhere right up until he showed up for camp as an entering freshman without NCAA sanction
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  • TitliestTitliest 10 replies3 threads New Member
    We've been upfront about wanting to understand the overall process as despite the stated dates/schedules/timelines (published by Ivy League, NCAA, Colleges, etc), the reality seems quite different, and different between each of HYP. Whatever the case, they have each been very open and honest. The next part of the game will be the financial pre-read's and subsequent matching/negotiations....

    Question; D has the final OV mid Sept. Each college is obviously wanting an ED application. We're thinking the strategy is to ask for a Likely Letter before committing. Last think we want is to for D to decide, apply and then for some reason not get admitted. Thoughts?
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  • dadof4kidsdadof4kids 711 replies70 threads Member
    Most sports will give likely letters. I would also ask the coach directly how many people that they offered a spot to got in. One coach said he didn't know for sure until likely letters are sent. Another said in 6 years he had gotten admitted 100% of the guys he offered slots to. Obviously that is after getting a preread from admissions, he is only offering spots to guys he knows he can get in. He said he wouldn't tell my son to apply early unless he was 100% sure he would be admitted. It seems like on most things if you ask the right questions the coaches will give honest answers.
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2463 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    Your daughter will have to apply to get the likely letter, but as @dadof4kids says by that point you will have had a full preread by admissions and will likely know if there are issues. Whether that application needs to be SCEA, assuming we are still talking about HYP exclusively, will depend on the specific conditions imposed by the individual coach. But you are absolutely correct that your daughter should extract a commitment of support for a likely letter before submitting her application.
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  • Emsmom1Emsmom1 1007 replies78 threads Senior Member
    My daughter had a coach tell her she would "support her application" and that she had one ED spot left. This gave her the confidence to apply ED (although she did apply to another school that expressed interest in her here in CA).
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