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ED1 and ED2 for Recruits

kjs1992kjs1992 116 replies2 threads Junior Member
Hi everyone -

Question regarding ED1 and ED2 for recruits. My son is being heavily recruited by 2 very selective LAC's (not NESCAC, but close) with 20-25% admit rates. He is on the top of their recruit lists, and they are in contact with him at least once/week. The pre-reads were both positive, both coaches want him up for official visits and one is already set up with one of the schools - just waiting for dates from the other. The coach at the school where he has the visit set up has already asked him if ED1 is a possibility for him. He's in the top 10% of his class, 1430 SAT's, leadership activities, etc. There is one school that has a slight edge over the other and that's really the coach that pushes it over the top (that's the school we're waiting on dates from). If he applies ED1 to one of the schools and ED2 to the other, I'm assuming the likelihood of coach support (such as it is) is much lower with ED2, as would be the likelihood of admittance if something were to fall apart with the ED1 school. Both schools are in the same league, and the coaches definitely know each other, so I'm sure they talk, as well. As an aside, yes, he has back up schools which we're confident he will get in to in case these don't pan out. Thanks!!!!
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Replies to: ED1 and ED2 for Recruits

  • ChembiodadChembiodad 2414 replies21 threads Senior Member
    Doesn't sound like an issue as coaches know that just like their recruit, they too are #1, #2, #3, on a prospects list. Other than the risk that the coach's need gets filled in ED, the coach will be waiting for your DD in ED2 if they want DD bad enough.
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  • MidwestmomofboysMidwestmomofboys 4023 replies27 threads Senior Member
    Sounds like he is deciding which is really his top choice for ED1. If he is deferred ED1 (and keep in mind, if it is Haverford lax, coach support is not enough to make it a slam dunk admissions, if you read old threads), then ED2 at the second choice school is only an option IF there is still a roster spot and the coach offers it to your son. When my kid went through D3 recruiting, our experience was that, once an athlete chose their ED1 school, the other schools moved on and worked on getting ED1 commitments from other players to fill that need. The likelihood of a roster spot still being there after ED1 results is hard to predict. I did not get the sense that coach support was less meaningful in ED2 round, rathe than there are simply fewer spots left -- ED2 is basically what happens after the music stops in the musical chairs of ED1, and the athletes without an acceptance are trying to find a school which still needs them. You can maximize the possibility by staying in touch with a coach after ED1 but they are unlikely to hold that spot open for an athlete.
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  • fleishmo6fleishmo6 552 replies28 threads Member
    Hello
    After the two official visits and he has decided which is his top choice immediately inform both coaches. To the second choice school have him express how difficult his choice was and that if the process does not work out could he reach back out to coach for ED2. These coaches deal with this all the time. Do not close any doors as you never know what will happen. On my sons NESCAC school swim team there are a few swimmers who did not get into their ED1 choice but kept communication open and got accepted into their ED2 school.
    Good luck
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  • kjs1992kjs1992 116 replies2 threads Junior Member
    Yep - he's definitely still deciding which one, though I know he's leaning toward one...ever so slightly. I think the overnights at both will put it all together for him in deciding which will be ED1 and ED2. My husband and I feel he can't go wrong at either school - just a preference on his end, really. And, not the school or sport that you mention - yikes :). One coach emailed 2 weeks ago to see if he would consider ED1 in November for that school. It is definitely a consideration, and our son responded in kind. The 2nd coach he met with a week ago and said they also want him there for an overnight and will get back to him with dates. Our son emailed back a thank you to that coach for meeting him, and responded that it's a top, if not the top, at this point - now just waiting for dates. I figure if he maintains good relationships, good communication, doesn't burn bridges anywhere and is honest, then that's the best he can do - and he has other schools as back ups in case which he'd be happy attending as well. Fingers crossed.....:)
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  • tenniswimvballtenniswimvball 96 replies4 threads Junior Member
    My kid had the same issue at what I believe are the same two schools. Overnight made the decision clear and the 1-2 spots flipped where No. 2 became No. 1. Team dynamic is crucial, especially if it is a sport with a relatively small roster. PM me if you have any questions.
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23268 replies17 threads Senior Member
    I'd concentrate on the ED1 choice. It is very likely (except at Haverford) that if the coach is promising support he'd get into that school. If not, that's when the ED2 even comes into play. Assume (except when graciously turning down the school that might be the ED2 school) that you are getting into the ED1. Make sure that's really the school you want.

    I think the coaches are asking about ED1 because some students are really not ready to make the choice in the fall. My daughter was asked, and she said no. She was able to commit to another school on the NLI, but just didn't want to apply ED1 to a school. In reality, the NLI was less of a commitment because she always could have gone to a D3 school, and NAIA school, or just not played for a year, but the ED1 is binding.
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  • gointhruaphasegointhruaphase 532 replies3 threads Member
    My understanding is that Haverford doesn't do pre-reads, but that is only based on one athlete in one sport. It would be interesting if others know of actual positive admission pre-reads that were not honored (meaning the academic stats being sent to admissions, not just a coach thinking the athlete has the stats). As an honor code school, it would be rough for admissions to give a green light and then go back on it.

    Of course, you should use ED1 for the preferred school. I wouldn't assume that coach support is less effective for ED2. It depends. It depends on the school, the athletic need, and the recruit. For schools that use "slots" and the slots are used up in ED1, then for sure a recruit needing a lot of coach support (due to lower stats) might be out of luck in ED2. On the other hand ED2 has been used by many recruited athletes where something went amiss in ED1.
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  • rofikicaferofikicafe 158 replies12 threads Junior Member
    Are there multiple horror stories about Haverford or does one person have a bad experience? I had heard MIT is not a "safe" place to ED1, what other schools have said, yep, we want you, we will support you, only to have the ED1 slot wasted?
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  • HMom16HMom16 704 replies18 threads Member
    Coaches have limited impact at MIT even if you're first on the list. But, isn't MIT EA, not ED? My daughter applied EA to MIT with full coach support and ED to an ivy where the coaches liked her but did not offer support. She was deferred from MIT but admitted to the ivy. In hindsight, MIT would not have been a good fit so we're glad it worked out this way.
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  • MidwestmomofboysMidwestmomofboys 4023 replies27 threads Senior Member
    On the Haverford board, there is an older thread about "athletes beware" or something like that, where a parent recounted their experience with Men's lax recruiting where lax player did not get in ED. The family felt that if they had understood that it really could go either way, they might have chosen a different school rather than take the risk with Haverford, and blamed the school and the coach for not being clear. Others in that thread recounted they understood ED was not a "sure thing" at Haverford, even with coach support and a strong application, and that it really could go either way. There was a lot of emotion -- understandable -- because a recruit's decision to go ED1 means they are walking away from other opportunities that likely will not be there in December if the recruit is deferred ED1.

    It is important to try to decipher "coach speak," and to ask specific questions -- "where am I on your recruiting list? How many recruits that you have given this level of support with my stats have been rejected in the past 5 years?" There is a lot of learning along the way for athlete and the family, and my kid matured as he learned to interact with coaches in person and on the phone, to ask follow up questions, and to make the difficult call to coaches he had developed a relationship with to say he was not choosing their school. It all worked out wonderfully in the end, but there are likely to be some bumps on the way.
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  • gointhruaphasegointhruaphase 532 replies3 threads Member
    @midwestmomofboys,

    As usual, I totally agree with your comments. I would go one step further and ask the coach "will you send my grades and scores to admissions for a pre-read." You could even ask "does your admissions office do pre-reads." Then, in 3 weeks time, follow up with the question "have you heard from admissions about the pre-read?"

    I am only leaving out on the table the possibility (that I heard from one athlete in one sport) that Haverford doesn't do pre-reads. That could explain the disappointment of a recruit who learned -- after specifically asking the coach -- that he or she was high on the coach's list and had acceptable stats for admission. If I didn't know about pre-reads, I too would assume based on that information that the chances for admission were very good.
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  • MidwestmomofboysMidwestmomofboys 4023 replies27 threads Senior Member
    Good point @gointhruaphase, about specifically asking for pre-reads, and understanding what the results mean.

    My kid needed merit award to make LAC work so his schools were safeties/matches and we weren't focused on admission but on the amount of merit. Somewhat analogous to a pre-read, we did ask most schools for a non-binding preliminary prediction of what kind of merit kid might get.

    The challenge was listening to what was actually being said (or not said)-- it's easy to get carried away by the coach's laudatory remarks about your kid -- and make yourself focus on what it all means. Is the coach supporting your student for admissions as a recruited athlete? What does that mean? How many students with a similar admissions profile were admitted/denied over the past X years? Does your athlete have a guaranteed roster spot? For how long? Does the coach cut recruits in the first year? etc.
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  • kjs1992kjs1992 116 replies2 threads Junior Member
    @gointhruaphase and @Midwestmomofboys - Good points. yes, in our experience with #1 and #2 schools, both have been pre-reads. Both coaches said the info was going to their admissions contacts and and it came back positive. I asked #1 this past week what his pre-read status was at our meeting (nicely, but I figured if he passed #2, then he should with this school). #2 coach got back to us in 12 hours via email with the positive news (seriously..sent info at night, got back to us by 10 am). #1 got back to us within the week - I think the coach was waiting to meet with us in person to discuss. Both coaches have been clear this is not a guarantee of admission, which we know and we're dancing carefully - I've seen it fall apart many times in our sport. Both have expressed wanting him to apply ED1 if he's interested and both want him to come up for an OV. He has asked how and where the coaches see him on the team. As a former coach myself, I feel they have been honest, spot on and they both see his appropriate potential.
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  • ChembiodadChembiodad 2414 replies21 threads Senior Member
    edited July 2017
    Haverford definitely gives pre-reads; I think many prospects and potentially their parents mistake a pre-read and a tip with a pre-read and a slot - this is an important question to ask.

    Also, beware of the response that no pre-read is needed as it likely means that the prospect is not a slot on the coaches list; it doesn't mean that an acceptance is less likely, but it likely means that no meaningful support is being given - my DD was given pre-reads at some schools where she was well within the top-25-%, but not all - the coaches interest mattered in that next step.
    edited July 2017
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23268 replies17 threads Senior Member
    I've read a lot about the Haverford admissions 'disappointments.' I think it is a miscommunications on what the pre-read means at that school. Haverford admissions does prereads, but only to say that the applicant meets the requirements to be admitted to the school. Well, many many qualified applicants to Brown and Harvard and Williams are turned down every year. The Haverford applicants are the same. Yes, they are qualified and that's what they are told, but they hear "I'm in" and that's not what the pre-read says at that school. Other schools' administrations ARE telling pre-reads that basically they are in if the coach supports their admissions. Haverford doesn't do that. Miscommunications.
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  • gointhruaphasegointhruaphase 532 replies3 threads Member
    Maybe that is the answer for the Haverford dilemma, but I have to say, I wouldn't call it a pre-read. A person could read US News and World Report to figure out whether a student meets the requirements, and certainly the athletic department would know what stats were needed for admission. The idea of sending the stats to admissions is to get a sense of whether the adcom is inclined to admit.
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  • MidwestmomofboysMidwestmomofboys 4023 replies27 threads Senior Member
    @twoinanddone I agree with your interpretation that miscommunication contributed to the unfortunate outcomes for recruits at Haverford discussed on CC. Anyone who is serious about recruiting at Haverford should read the NY Times series about Haverford recruiting from a number of years ago -- it was clear then that coaches across a range of sports got some disappointing results with recruiting -- being qualified for admission is not the same as being admitted at Hford. Perhaps because it remains smaller than many of its peer LACs and the core culture is so distinct, admissions takes recruiting status as just one factor among many in the admissions decision. There are other schools where recruited status seems to matter little in the admissions decision, reputedly MIT and CalTech.

    The OP said they are not looking at Haverford and it is not lax, so this issue may not be of specific interest. Still, families going through recruiting can benefit from reminders to ask specific questions of coaches about admissions. It is all too easy to hear what we want to hear, and much more difficult to follow up with the hard questions (at least for me, and I assume I'm not the only one). Especially in D3 which does not have likely letters or NLI and which relies on ED commitments, there is so much room for ambiguity and misunderstanding that asking those detailed questions can make all the difference between celebrating and heartbreak in mid December.
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  • ChembiodadChembiodad 2414 replies21 threads Senior Member
    edited July 2017
    While the number of slots isn't restricted in the Centennial Conference as it is in the NESCAC, the concept is the same - way too many people think that a pre-read means a slot vs a tip. Sinc there are only 0-3 slots available per sport, most are going to be offered a tip which only gives an athlete the spot if its even up in admissions.
    edited July 2017
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  • dadof4kidsdadof4kids 695 replies68 threads Member
    I think it is critical to ask the coach at any school what it means. S is a rising Junior, so we haven't gotten that detailed with most coaches, but one conversation went there and the coach said the standard admissions has the final say speech, but when pressed, he said that he is 100% in the last 5 years on getting his guys in and he won't ask S to apply ED unless he is confident that he will get in. He wants to preserve his credibility with future recruits. That's one coach at one school in one sport. But I think if you ask directly how many guys (or girls) they have asked to apply ED were denied, they will be honest. They may not offer up the info, but most will give an accurate answer if asked, whatever it may be.

    When we started doing unofficial visits, I was pleasantly surprised at the level of info coaches will give if asked direct questions. I let S do most of the talking, but on things where he was less comfortable I asked a few questions.
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