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Betting on a sports scholarship to pay for kids' college? Don't

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Replies to: Betting on a sports scholarship to pay for kids' college? Don't

  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23810 replies17 threads Senior Member
    But schools lose money in general. Why have a history department if there isn't a million dollar grant? The theater and dance departments? Not breaking even. Marching band? Nice rec center or beautiful flower gardens? People are attracted to colleges because they have nice things, including sports teams.

    If you only had 20 football teams, who would they play? Those teams at the bottom of the Big 10 are still making money off shared revenue.

    DU doesn't have a football team and the basketball team isn't making any money, but the athletic department as a whole doesn't do badly. The facilities are constantly rented out for everything from birthday parties for 5 year olds to high school graduations. Almost every program has some kind of lessons or summer camps for kids which brings in money to the coaches and rent to the facilities. The women's gymnastic team isn't getting credit for the birthday parties or the practice gym used for the local club team, but they wouldn't have the facilities to use if it weren't for the gymnastics team, and that brings in the money.
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  • mamommamom 3700 replies24 threads Senior Member
    @GKUnion , that is unfortunate, but if that is what the school had to do to move towards equatable standings on female vs male sports than so be it. Do you realize how many females can now play sports in college, how many can afford to attend due to scholarships. Title IX was not designed to reduce the number of male sports, but to increase the opportunities for females. How colleges decided to do that is up to them.
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23810 replies17 threads Senior Member
    Title IX was pass in 1972, a time when there were many men only schools or some were just starting to admit women. Women were not admitted to the service academies until 1976. The focus was not on sports but on education as a whole.

    Sports is the part of Title IX that everyone points to, but I'm happy to see women in the classrooms and labs and getting equal facilities.
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  • mamommamom 3700 replies24 threads Senior Member
    I actually wonder why sports play any role in college admissions. I understand the big football/basketball hype that brings spectators and money from graduates. It goes back to the question of should we pay these athletes, many of whom could never get into the school otherwise, to play? The D1 schools anyway, make a lot of money off these athletes.

    And I agree with your comment @dadof4kids that females are more likely to find scholarship $ as a female, because there are less of them competing for the pot.
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 23810 replies17 threads Senior Member
    I don't think there are fewer women looking for sports scholarships.
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  • mamommamom 3700 replies24 threads Senior Member
    @twoinanddone I have not analyzed the numbers of girls/women playing in HS vs boys but suspect there are fewer girls playing then boys. So you may be correct, but I don't have date to dispute.

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  • anon145anon145 610 replies7 threads Member
    @dadof4kids the reason why things are so strange is the NCAA is trying to pretend their model, in the free market sense, is not exploiting the players ("student athletes").

    "I am happy to see the women's programs supported, but think football programs, at least ones who are self funding, should not be part of the equation." -D0f 4 Kids

    More men's basketball programs are profitable than football; $19.6 billion dollar TV contracts for the rights to televise men's hoops.

    the reason the system is so bizarre is because schools want federal funding so must comply with men=women=scholarship #s but they want the MONEY TOO.

    The problem is only the top 20 or so Football programs turn a profit but there are 130 FBS D1 football programs. The question I have (not just for D1 but D3 too) - why have a football program at all if you aren't profitable at it?

    Thinking of NESCACs, U chicago etc. it must be hard to fill football teams with "good" students given all the evidence it causes brain damage.
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3286 replies62 threads Senior Member
    Thinking of NESCACs, U chicago etc. it must be hard to fill football teams with "good" students given all the evidence it causes brain damage.

    Some of these teams lose many games (looking at you Bates, Bowdoin, Colby), suggesting there may be something to this statement.

    Football is also expensive and typically represents a significant proportion of athletic department budgets....facilities, coaching, recruiting...all cost a lot of $$. Here's an interesting article on Bowdoin's program https://bowdoinorient.com/2018/10/26/money-cant-fix-everything-even-bowdoin-football/

    It has also become extremely expensive to insure football, with only a few insurers left that service the college market....only one workers' comp insurer left for the NFL... https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/nfl-football-threat-evaporating-insurance-market/story?id=60446104

    I do think over the next 10-20 years we will see many schools drop football, like Earlham and Arizona community colleges.
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  • ASKMotherASKMother 222 replies1 threads Junior Member
    @mamom according to one source there are fewer girls playing sports than boys (by about 1M) HOWEVER the overall number of students participating in sports has increased each year for the past 29 years, and more young women contribute to that increase than young men. I would wager some (if not most) of that has to do with the dream/hope/need for a sports scholarship to attend college and more spots opening up for women's' sports.

    https://www.nfhs.org/articles/high-school-sports-participation-increases-for-29th-consecutive-year/

    And as far as why keep a football program at your school if it isn't profitable... simple - for school spirit! For the tradition of pitting one schools top brawn against the others. For the Rivalry. For the bragging rights. For the opportunity to bring students and alumni together and have one more piece of the community building puzzle in place. Universities are not in this for the profits anyway (at least not ones with sports teams) so why does it matter if their football team turns a profit or just gets out there each Saturday and competes - win some, lose some? Can't they just enjoy the game - both those watching and those playing? All work and no play makes Johnny (and everyone else around him!) a dull boy.

    That being said... Roll Tide!
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3286 replies62 threads Senior Member
    edited May 2019
    @ASKMother wrote:
    And as far as why keep a football program at your school if it isn't profitable... simple - for school spirit! For the tradition of pitting one schools top brawn against the others. For the Rivalry. For the bragging rights. For the opportunity to bring students and alumni together and have one more piece of the community building puzzle in place.

    Those don't seem like good reasons for 80 to 100+ young men per team to risk their long term health.
    edited May 2019
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  • anon145anon145 610 replies7 threads Member
    edited May 2019
    @Mwfan1921 in our general area high schools that used to have JV and Varsity football now only have 1 football team. One school that does really well in affluent sports (state champs in multiple sports) had to forfeit all their football games one year cause couldn't field a team, another high school had to quit midseason sense not enough players/injuries and a third had to restart from JV (since the players were too young and would get killed) and drop varsity (hoping to bring it back in a year or two). So in affluent districts I think football is dying. I would expect the high academic D3 schools to think about dropping football sooner than D1 money losing schools.

    @ASKMother Yep Alabama, Texas (SEC) will probably always have football but even at a school like Duke a couple decades ago students and alumni could care less about the football team. If schools that lose money on football drop it they can then drop 85 female money losing slots too.
    edited May 2019
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3286 replies62 threads Senior Member
    edited May 2019
    Football is on the wane in my affluent suburban area as well @anon145. Fewer programs, combined across suburbs, where each town used to have its own. Very few kids looking or getting football scholarships--maybe 1 or 2 a year from a 4,000 student high school. A few more go to NESCACs each year. Agree the higher academic colleges will drop football faster, the insurance risk though is the same for all programs.
    If schools that lose money on football drop it they can then drop 85 female money losing slots too.

    Title IX does not require equal numbers of M/F athletes (and few schools come close to equal numbers), just equal athletic opportunity, and then proportional scholarships based on the numbers actually playing.
    edited May 2019
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  • ASKMotherASKMother 222 replies1 threads Junior Member
    @Mwfan1921 apparently you are all academics and wealth focused, and have no personal regard for sports. And that's good for you and how you chose to focus your energy. However those not involved in a sport really should not have a say or be critical of those who are or how the system itself is managed. No one is forcing students to play sports in college - be it football or basketball or soccer or swimming. Kids who have been involved in something growing up like to continue to do it... they find it to be a stress reliever and just enjoy the workout, being with teammates, competing, etc. We have a good friend who was involved in dressage and eventing all her life (equestrian) ... she was thrilled when she made the team at her college even though that was not a driving factor for her to attend - academic scholarships were. My cousin played volleyball at GATech, a school that she might not have chosen had it not been for her sport (she was also recruited by LSU and UVa! just putting that there to brag on her!) She wouldn't change a thing about her college life - which would have been vastly different had she not continued playing a sport (BTW her husband played football for GATech too!) Sports in college is a good thing IMO for men and women.
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3286 replies62 threads Senior Member
    edited May 2019
    Those are quite a lot of assumptions @askmother My comments were football focused and only represent my feelings on football, and its related financial and physical costs. Sports have always been an important part of my life and my family's, I played two sports in college and D19 will be playing her sport at a NESCAC.
    edited May 2019
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  • anon145anon145 610 replies7 threads Member
    edited May 2019
    yep @Mwfan1921 CC: @ASKMother there's a scientific consensus that decades of football at the highest levels really increases CTE (87% incidence).
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170725122124.htm

    There is still olympic and professional boxing, although I think most parents don't want their kids doing it. Football is/should be the first to go at D3 academic school and money losing D1; there's not just the money issue (40% of money lost by men's sports at Bowdoin was lost by football) but the health issues too.

    I would not be surprised if there was some class action suit against D1 big name schools and later in life CTE at some point. Thankfully it has not happened in college but what happens if someone gets paralyzed for life in a college football game? who pays?
    edited May 2019
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  • ASKMotherASKMother 222 replies1 threads Junior Member
    @Mwfan1921 then you of all people should realize the importance of ALL sports not just a select few. Football will remain at institutions profitable or not, and it's mainly because of football that many collegiate women, your D19 included, have opportunity to pursue sports in college..
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3286 replies62 threads Senior Member
    edited May 2019
    The thing is @askmother is that we now know so much more about the effects of football than we did just last year, yet alone 10 or 30 years ago. To support football requires one to overlook or ignore scientific data. There are relatively few football programs that make money and those tend to be DI FBS programs, and of course that money does support other sports. But at a random nescac, not so much.
    edited May 2019
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  • anon145anon145 610 replies7 threads Member
    if football went away it wouldn't necessarily be the end of woman's sport. Harvard runs 40 varsity sports; if football went away they might run 20. It wouldn't be the end of the world. Right now D1 schools have something like 11 baseball scholarships and 9.9 for men's soccer; affluent sports would just lose scholarships on the mens' side to balance out..
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  • GKUnionGKUnion 344 replies10 threads Member
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