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Ivy financial reads

throwersmomthrowersmom 10 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
My son has completed academic pre-reads at several Ivys and we are currently waiting on financial reads. One of the schools said they would call us with the estimate. I am hoping to get an email copy since the schools might match one another. Have any of you experienced an Ivy refusing to give an estimate in writing?
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Replies to: Ivy financial reads

  • politepersonpoliteperson 314 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    No. I would expect a hard or emailed copy at some point. I seem to remember one (might have been Princeton) that calls first, then sends a hard copy. I can’t speak to Harvard though, and others might have had different experiences. It might make sense for HYP to drag their feet a bit because coaches are aware of the matching going on and don’t want to provide an easy offer to shop around with. But I haven’t heard of that happening to the track athletes I know. Keep in mind that some of the non-HYP schools can and will ‘match’ FA without ever seeing pre-reads from other schools.
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  • throwersmomthrowersmom 10 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    thanks polite person, Princeton was the one who said they would call with the estimate but it made me wonder if that was standard practice.
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  • politepersonpoliteperson 314 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    ^ yes, I think the call plus eventually a hard copy is pretty standard for Princeton.
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  • throwersmomthrowersmom 10 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Politeperson, do you know if Ivys match for all four years when they agree to match other Ivys?
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  • skieuropeskieurope 38873 replies6865 threadsSuper Moderator Super Moderator
    edited August 19
    Politeperson, do you know if Ivys match for all four years when they agree to match other Ivys?

    This is semantics, but HYP do not "match;" they will rerun the numbers based upon written offers from peer schools. The revised offer may come closer, or even match. But if requesting that the FA office at one of those 3 look at a competing offer, best not to use the word "match."
    edited August 19
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  • politepersonpoliteperson 314 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    @throwersmom Yes, they’ll match for all 4 years. For example, if Cornell does a pre read based on Princeton’s financial aid methodology, they’ll do that in the subsequent four years (so the aid might change, but will be based on Cornell’s best estimate of what Princeton FA would look like).
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  • throwersmomthrowersmom 10 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Thanks so much, this is starting to feel like an elaborate dance!!
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  • politepersonpoliteperson 314 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    @skieurope non HYP Ivies use the word “match” pretty freely. Sure, it’s probably best—when actually discussing this with the FA office—to use words like reconsider or revise. But I’ve even heard the word “match” used by HYP coaches, so I don’t think it’s too far out of bounds. In practice, what they are doing is far more than a “rerun” of the numbers. They are getting the net cost to essentially the same place, even if that means changing how they calculate aid. And they are explicit about what they are doing. So to say they don’t match is misleading.

    Regarding your claim that schools require a written offer in order to do so...that’s definitely not true. This all happens during the pre-read process based on estimates, not offers. Some non HYPs like Cornell and Columbia don’t even require a written estimate. They’ll produce a FA estimate using another school’s methodology if an athlete has been recruited by that other school. I don’t have personal experience with trying to get HYP to match without a competing written estimate so I’m not comfortable claiming that they will or won’t. I do know that they’ll make revisions based on written estimates from peer schools. Of course, HYP usually aren’t the ones needing to match since they usually have the best aid to start with for most people.

    I’m not trying to be confrontational. Just wanted to clear those things up to avoid confusing future recruits.
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  • skieuropeskieurope 38873 replies6865 threadsSuper Moderator Super Moderator
    edited August 19
    non HYP Ivies use the word “match” pretty freely
    I specifically stated HYP.

    Whether someone not employed by an HYP FA office uses the term is irrelevant; an FA officer will "generally" not use the term.
    Regarding your claim that schools require a written offer in order to do so...that’s definitely not true. This all happens during the pre-read process based on estimates, not offers.
    Getting back to semantics. OK offer, estimate, pre-read analysis, whatever. The point is that HYP will ask for it written to compare.
    Some non HYPs like Cornell and Columbia don’t even require a written estimate.
    Again, I was addressing HYP. And there may be cases where an HYP school won't ask for it in writing. But the OP (and others) should not be surprised by a college asking for the "whatever" to be in writing.

    I'm only attempting to provide a PoV, not to debate. None of which may matter, as the OP has not specified the schools.
    edited August 19
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  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2459 replies41 threadsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Forum Champion
    When my son was being recruited several years ago now, “word on the street” was that Harvard was reticent to provide written FA pre reads because Penn would only match FA if a written estimate was provided. At the time, Harvard and Penn had been consistently in the mix for the Ivy title, ran very similar schemes and often chased the same recruits. This policy would theoretically give Harvard a recruiting advantage, since a kid who needed matching couldn’t really commit to Penn until Harvard made a decision on that kid. So it could be true, but since my son never went that far with Harvard I have no real idea.
    The schools that did recruit him were all over the map on what they wanted before they would match, from one school saying that they knew Princeton was after my son and would match the aid, to others saying they wanted personal emails, etc to establish recruiting interest. As I sit here, I honestly can’t remember if Penn asked for a written pre read, but I do remember that Cornell did.
    My son did get pre reads from both Yale and Princeton, and I believe both were e mailed. Neither balked at providing it in written form. He chose to attend Princeton, which had slightly better aid than Yale for us out of the box, but the difference was relatively small, less than a grand a year iirc. The difference between Yale and Princeton on the one hand and the non HYP ivies was more significant.
    We often descend into semantics on this board, and I cannot specifically recall which coaches used the exact phrase “match”, but the concept is pretty widely and explicitly discussed when a kid is getting recruited seriously by multiple schools. I do clearly remember being told at both Yale and Princeton to make sure to get a pre read from the other and then the FA office would use whatever was “best”. I certainly took that to mean they would match the aid. As I have said before, coaches at other ivies were very clear that the FA office at that school would apply the formula of the more generous school, and the end result would be the money would be the same. As you can guess, I was very involved in the financial side of recruiting, paid close attention to what was said and asked many questions about it. At no point did I get the sense that matching at any school was anything other than what it was represented to be, a leveling of the financial playing field similar to the way the ivies operated across the board before the anti trust case in the 80s or 90s.
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  • throwersmomthrowersmom 10 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Thank you Ohiodad51! My son has ov at Penn, Yale, Dartmouth, and Princeton coming up and three of them seem to be waiting on the read from the fourth to even run the financial read. They gave me the impression that it is standard for them to match the formula of the fourth. Fingers crossed!
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  • politepersonpoliteperson 314 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    ^ great options to have. A thrower can thrive at any one of those programs. Good luck to your son and do remind him to enjoy this process.
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  • throwersmomthrowersmom 10 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Thanks politeperson!
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  • dadof4kidsdadof4kids 636 replies61 threadsRegistered User Member
    edited August 23
    The Ivy League permits schools to match financial aid offers for a prospective student in anticipation of another Ivy League school's award, OR BASED ON ANOTHER IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL'S PUBLISHED POLICY OR WEB-BASED NEED-ANALYSIS ESTIMATOR, if the prospect conveys that the other Ivy League school has shown evidence of recruiting by ******list that basically is official visit, home visit, or at least 2 personal calls/letters from the coach.

    I pretty much lifted that language from a form S had to sign, after filling out details about the contact he had with other schools. I added the ALL CAPS because it addresses the OP question. I don't know which schools specifically do it this way, but this is what is allowed. HYP may be different, but most people don't know or care because frankly no one is going to use their packgage from Cornell or Brown to try to get HYP lower. My understanding of the way it generally works, and certainly the way it worked for me, is that HYP are similar to each other and decently cheaper than the other 5.
    edited August 23
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  • GoodtoKnowGoodtoKnow 14 replies0 threadsRegistered User New Member
    @dadof4kids I spoke to someone in Financial Aid office at non HYP Ivy yesterday after submitting my financial aid pre-read documents. Person confirmed that adjustment would be made after they gave their estimate if we provided evidence of pre-read at HY or P. She seemed rather matter of fact about it - as if it was fairly routine.
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