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I HATE how Brown doesn't cater to US News Rankings

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Replies to: I HATE how Brown doesn't cater to US News Rankings

  • modestmelodymodestmelody Registered User Posts: 4,654 Senior Member
    I'd argue budget spent per student (not including pay for professors solely working with graduate students or solely doing research), not including housing, food, etc, so simply academic resources, would be an interesting number to know.

    That's not reported however. Endowments are hardly spent, in fact, their interest is hardly spent, that's why they keep growing at most schools. Not only that, but if you think money spent on certain things is actually an accurate measure of resources that matter to student, well, I don't know what to say to that.
  • posterXposterX Registered User Posts: 2,246 Senior Member
    Actually, endowments are spent. Some universities get a significant portion of their funding from endowment interest/spending, because they have large endowments, while others do not. Of course minor differences may not mean much but when you're talking about $2,000,000 per student at Yale/Princeton or $1,500,000 per student at Harvard versus a couple hundred thousand at most of the other Ivies, you're talking about the emergence of huge differences in program quality/resources.

    Also, other numbers, such as spending per student, are actually reported, if you're willing to dig them up (they've been posted on this forum many times before). COHE figures recently had Caltech, Yale and Princeton as the top three universities in the country in terms of spending per student on teaching, advising, fellowships, etc.

    Again, though, as I said above, much more in-depth research on your college choices is needed before you rule anyone out based on any kind of rankings or resources available.
  • modestmelodymodestmelody Registered User Posts: 4,654 Senior Member
    I disagree that those things translate so directly, but that's just me.

    Like I said, my measure of resources is if everything anyone coudl ever want is available, you've got resources. I maintain that Brown offers that.
  • CoolaTroopaCoolaTroopa . Posts: 1,170 Senior Member
    posterX is a yale ****, and what is it with people's fascination with Duke? F Duke..

    You are asking this question seriously.. do some research.. I'm not wasting my time with you.
  • modestmelodymodestmelody Registered User Posts: 4,654 Senior Member
    Coola-- ignore the people who say dumb things. That's what I should do-- I'd be happier.
  • PinderhughesPinderhughes Registered User Posts: 84 Junior Member
    Brown has a higher yield than Duke for a reason. Brown absolutely kills Duke in the cross admit battle. If a superior student's choices for a top tier school is between Brown and Duke, Brown will get that student over 60% of the time. This has always been the case and nothing has changed in any of the recent admissions cycle. As for endowment per student, there is no more specious metric in ascertaining institutional quality than this one. There is the well-known case of a Brown undergraduate who transferred to Harvard and then transferred back to Brown again. Reason? Lack of access to undergraduate resources at-Harvard. Yes the Harvard that supposedly has 1,500,000.00 to allot per student. Let me make a bold assertion here. Brown is the absolutely finest undergraduate school in America currently. Only Dartmouth, Princeton, and Yale are remotely close.
  • JohnnyKJohnnyK - Posts: 2,156 Senior Member
    A bold assertion indeed.

    Paging Drs. Williams and Amherst...
  • modestmelodymodestmelody Registered User Posts: 4,654 Senior Member
    I like to think like Pinderhughes, with a few more colleges on the list from the LAC stuff, although I do admit having a university-college does pose some pretty big advantages to the typical LAC model for a physical scientist such as myself.

    I dno if we "kill" Duke as asserted, and I do think there are many reasons to go there and it's a fine school. It's a very different place than Brown and many students who were happy at one may not like the other so much.
  • Brunonian2010Brunonian2010 Registered User Posts: 124 Junior Member
    No we KILL Duke! Cross admits attend Brown 78% of the time.

    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html

    Also, Pinderhughes I completely agree that currently Brown is the best undergraduate university in America let alone the Ivy League. In fact, when US News ranked national universities by the quality of undergradute education in the 90's Brown came in second after Dartmouth.
  • DionysusDionysus Registered User Posts: 470 Member
    when US News ranked national universities by the quality of undergradute education in the 90's Brown came in second after Dartmouth.
    why oh why did they have to change it :(
  • posterXposterX Registered User Posts: 2,246 Senior Member
    Source? .....
  • AdOfficerAdOfficer College Rep Posts: 374 Member
    ^^^^^^
    dionysus,
    if i remember correctly, brown was actually #1 for several years, perennially up there with dartmouth. go back into the us news archives at your schools and look at the early- and mid-90s rankings. i'm not sure if they called it their "quality of undergraduate program rankings," but they basically stated that whatever it was they were measuring, this is what it equated to (quality of undergrad education). i remember them distinctly, as my guidance counselor kept shoving them in my face back in the day.

    also, before us news heavily weighed "faculty resources" (of which salaries play a huge role) in their overall rankings, brown was consistently ranked in the top 10 of national universities.

    btw, posterX - just because a school's endowment $/student is high does not necessarily mean that its UNDERGRADUATE students are seeing that money or benefitting from it more than a school with a lower endowment/student ratio.
  • PKswmr76PKswmr76 Registered User Posts: 1,669 Senior Member
    "Also, Pinderhughes I completely agree that currently Brown is the best undergraduate university in America let alone the Ivy League. In fact, when US News ranked national universities by the quality of undergradute education in the 90's Brown came in second after Dartmouth."


    yea do you have a source for that?
  • modestmelodymodestmelody Registered User Posts: 4,654 Senior Member
    AdOfficer-- I'd in fact make the claim that endowment/per grad student is a very decent indicator of graduate school resources whereas endowment/undergrad is simply not.
  • posterXposterX Registered User Posts: 2,246 Senior Member
    Here are two other ways to look at it. If you look them up, you'll see that they mirror endowment per student in most cases, but not all. In either case, Brown (and other research universities with similar resources per student such as Penn and Cornell) are far behind HYP/Caltech/MIT.

    - Research expenditure per undergraduate science major, and/or per student.

    - Student to faculty ratios in the most popular departments for undergraduate majors, either on a per-undergraduate-major basis or on a per-undergraduate-student basis.

    Endowment per student definitely isn't the only measure, but in the case where there are wide gaps between two institutions (e.g., one with $2,000,000 per student versus one with $100,000), it is a pretty good predictor of a lot of things. The size of the endowment almost always has a lot to do with what kind of money is available for advising, fellowships, tutoring, quality of housing, special teaching programs, number of teachers available at any given time, and even dining hall food. Again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't do your research, but don't "under-do" it, either.
This discussion has been closed.