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Odds at Goldman--very bad

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Replies to: Odds at Goldman--very bad

  • sophomore12sophomore12 1063 replies32 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    and Wharton is 500 per class, not 2400 (that's the entire school)
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  • sophomore12sophomore12 1063 replies32 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Guys let's keep in mind that Goldman Sachs is not the only employer of IB out there... JPM, MS, Merill, Bear Stearns, Bank of America, Lehman Brothers, Blackstone group are just a few of the best... and there's more where that came from and if you factor in the Middle Market banks, there's plenty of employment for everyone (at least people who have a solid college performance from a target school)...
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  • mahras2mahras2 1938 replies39 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Fact of the matter is, however, exactly how many people got into Goldman from Mich? Not all ibanking jobs are equal. There is actually a pretty substantial difference between working at the bulge brackets (GS, MS, and take your pick for two as they fluctuate). Heck, some (make that many) would argue there is a pretty big difference between GS/MS and the others. Further still there is a very big difference between working at the top groups vs. others. Not everyone works for PE banking at goldman, or LA healthcare at UBS regardless of the school you graduate.

    This is why I think he is right in saying that not everyone who is interested in banking will be able to do so especially when you are talking about the best positions out there.

    And again, regardless of whether you like it or not, bank recruiting is elitist. The guys that select from non-target schools are much more strict than if the pool is from targets. I would read this thread: http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/2517
    It gets worse when you want to break buyside (PE, HF, top prop firms) out of undergrad. They wouldn't have bothered with even seeing the resume in the first place (I have actually seen this happen). So, all those people who happen to want banking but aren't at targets won't get it. That btw includes all those schools that nitpickers identify as semi-targets. So yea, your anecdote about grads going to work at goldman (which btw doesn't mean they are bankers...most people at goldman aren't front office bankers, traders, salesmen or asset managers) isn't the norm.

    So yea, it is a completely different level of competition when you want to get these jobs. Just view it this way: on CC, every april there is a boatload of posts about how top students not getting into top 10-15 colleges. Now imagine the guys that made that cut competing against each other. That would be the level of competition you face.
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  • jnpnjnpn 776 replies11 threadsRegistered User Member
    jnpn,

    most of the people here say they want to do IB, but the reality is that not many will. that's just life. and who cares that goldman is the 4th most popular employer at ross. that's only 9 people anyway out of a class of 300-400.

    I don't think every student at Ross wants to go in to investment banking and applied to goldman sachs. My point was that invesment banking isn't impossible to break in to. 38.8% of Ross grads go in to the industry (I don't know what percent of the graduating class tried) and it's not even an ubertarget like Harvard or Wharton.
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  • sophomore12sophomore12 1063 replies32 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Everyone at Wharton who does Finance wants GS or Blackstone...
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  • Niihla10Niihla10 555 replies44 threadsRegistered User Member
    Yeah, I don't think its as impossible as some make it seem, esp if you go to a target school. if tons of ross grads (as said, almost 40%) go into ibanking, it can't be that difficult. Esp. since there are many (like me) who have no interest in ibanking, 40% is a lot.
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    None of you kids are getting in investment banking.
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  • VectorWegaVectorWega 1862 replies10 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Why not? It doesn't seem that difficult to get into.
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Good one kid, one of the hardest jobs to get on the planet isn't difficult to get into.
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  • VectorWegaVectorWega 1862 replies10 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    I'm probably older than you son.

    Unless all these business schools are liing it doesn't appear that difficult at all. I'm looking at a brochure right now. Top 20 MBA program, 10% of all graduates going into Investment Banking. Only 40% of all graduates are going into finance at all.
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    VectorWega whats your job experience?
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  • VectorWegaVectorWega 1862 replies10 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Well, I'm not looking to go Ibanking so it's quite irrelevant. I've made a lot of money in real estate and that's what I'll stick to when I decide to come out of retirement.
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Top 20 MBA itself, is roughly 650-700+ GMAT, respectable undergrad GPA, and solid work experience (4 years on average I believe). Now after you've achieved that, 10% of those get into IBanking?
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Most of you that are interested in Investment Banking will not make it so just give up and stop discussing it. More importantly, spend that time that you have used dreaming about banking, into a career that you will actually enjoy and excel at.
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    The point of me asking your work experience was because if you think Investment Banking isn't difficult to get into from your point of view, you must have some amazing credentials. You must have gotten jobs that were signficantly harder to get than investment banking (which hardly exist, consulting?)to claim that it is "not difficult" correct?
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  • VectorWegaVectorWega 1862 replies10 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Now after you've achieved that, 10% of those get into IBanking?

    At this school, 10% go into IB, but only 40% go into finance at all. So a 25% rate is probably more accurate but you have to consider that many of those in finance probably don't want to go IB simply due to the long hours etc.

    Talking to students from another school (actually, not even a top 50 MBA program) they told me that many of their fellow students wanted to go IB when they started their MBA but by the time they've really learned more about IB most change their mind (BTW, that school also sends people into IB despite not being a top 50 program).

    I'm sure it is quite difficult to get into IB from undergrad. However, if you really desire to be IB then you can always fall back on an MBA and have what appears to be a very good chance at going IB. (especially if u come from a finance background which should give you an edge once in business school).
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  • VectorWegaVectorWega 1862 replies10 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    BTW, this thread is not simply about IB'ing. It's about any position that Goldman Sachs has. This would include IT, analyst, and advisor roles (and probably many other roles also). They also probably receive a ton of resumes from people that are not good fits at all.
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  • jnpnjnpn 776 replies11 threadsRegistered User Member
    Dawgie-- 40% from Ross (almost half of all Ross students don't seek jobs in finance). This is for undergrad. There are some schools that have an even easier time breaking in to the industry.
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  • DawgieDawgie 1574 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Yea I'll agree a few schools give you a much better chance, but realistically I'm trying to do most of these kids a favor.
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  • redhare317redhare317 1393 replies56 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Ross is a target, but that 40% might be misleading.

    First of all, it's according to how many people responded to the career survey, so everything is self-reported material. Of course we can assume that a good number out of the 350 graduates did the survey, and most probably answered as accurately as possible. But still, the 40% is not 40% of students but rather 40% of respondents.

    Second of all (and more importantly), many jobs can be classified as "investment banking" that actually aren't traditionally IB. And it can be anywhere in the world. Just look through the Ross job database (search by "finance-investment banking") or postings on Vault or **** for "investment banking" and you'll know what I mean. You'll see a list of random firms/positions. The real % we need to know is % going into a BB (or top boutique) in NYC as an IB analyst, eliminating firms and positions (and probably even locations) that don't traditionally count.

    I know a Ross student who graduated in 2004. He went to GS. He said only one other person that year became an analyst in IB in NYC. The rest were non-IB positions and/or not in NYC. I'll try to get more details on that, but that's what he said.
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