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Odds at Goldman--very bad

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Replies to: Odds at Goldman--very bad

  • mahras2mahras2 Registered User Posts: 1,977 Senior Member
    I have been interning at a buy side trading firm for two years (academic + summer). I have no interest in IBD.
    As for credentials: academic finance research (to be published in peer reviewed journal), relevant work experience (as stated 2 years as well as a small venture I was a part of), random connections (one MD in IBD is someone I have dinner with relatively frequently, people I contacted regarding various research who are connected etc). Not saying I (or anyone in this thread) am overqualified (I could care less about IBD). Just saying the generalization that everyone has a poor shot based on your anecdotes is false.
  • TheMK99TheMK99 Registered User Posts: 1,019 Member
    mahras is a good guy he shouldn't be getting insulted and **** on this forum for no reason.
  • redhare317redhare317 Registered User Posts: 1,449 Senior Member
    Yes, mahras knows his stuff. He's just not into IB.
  • Sam LeeSam Lee Registered User Posts: 9,449 Senior Member
    People need to understand just because company ABC is the most common employer for your school grads doesn't mean your school is a hot target or whatever for that company. There are hundred thousands of companies in the US and there are only 7000 graduates at most from your school--that means any company hiring just 1 person from your school is already having more than average number from your school! When you have so many trying to get into GS, it's really not that difficult to make GS one of the largest employers for your school grads unless your school is just mediocre.
  • jnpnjnpn Registered User Posts: 787 Member
    People need to understand just because company ABC is the most common employer for your school grads doesn't mean your school is a hot target or whatever for that company.

    Somewhat true, somewhat false. It gives you an idea of what proportion of the school go on to work at ABC, which then gives you an idea of what proportion of people from this school could get a job at ABC if they applied.
    here are hundred thousands of companies in the US and there are only 7000 graduates at most from your school--that means any company hiring just 1 person from your school is already having more than average number from your school!

    Completely irrelevant.
    When you have so many trying to get into GS, it's really not that difficult to make GS one of the largest employers for your school grads unless your school is just mediocre.

    Cornell AEM didn't even send two to GS last year. You don't think they had a lot of people trying to get in? Do you think they are mediocre?
  • bern700bern700 User Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,191 Senior Member
    Wharton UGs: approx. 550 per class

    Regarding the initial statistic 900 people from Wharton applied for a GS internship. However, this includes freshman through juniors seeking internships. The vast majority of freshman have no chance because of age and lack of experience/knowledge, the majority of sophomores are dinged except those accepted to some kind of special sophomore program (the very exceptional ones), and then you have your jr class which is the one really competing for the internship. If you exclude all the people applying that have no chance of getting the internship (i.e. freshman, majority of sophomores) then your applicant pool probably falls to around 450-500 of which GS interviewed 200 for first round interviews. Of those 70 were given offers. Probably somewhere around 40 accepted.

    I know a lot of people with sub par GPAs (think in the low 3.0 to high 2.0 range) that got banking offers.

    Breaking into banking from a target school is not difficult. At least here at Wharton everyone that wants a banking job can get a banking job. Maybe not at a BB but there are always places like Jefferies, HLHZ, RBS, Barclays, BofA, etc. where people end up...not bad places to end up to say the least.
  • mahras2mahras2 Registered User Posts: 1,977 Senior Member
    lol. Goldman isn't McDonalds. It actually is kind of a big deal to make Goldman the top employer at your school (I find explaining this hilarious btw).

    Now using your notion> There are ton of kids applying to Harvard each year you know. I guess it just so happens that Andover and Exeter place so many kids at that school.

    Do you realize the weak point in your (uninformed) reasoning? I wasn't talking about 1 kid getting in. I am speaking of >20 at MS, 15 at GS, and everything in between. Getting into banking is one of the most difficult professions to get in (yes in raw numbers it is harder than the college process). When a school is presenting such numbers, its kind of foolish to say that its not recruited.

    And just to take a cheap shot> Northwestern doesn't place this well (actually its not really close). So how are you touting NWs "recruiting"? [example of this: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3876933&highlight=recruiting#post3876933]

    And this isn't some uninformed assertion. http://www.northwestern.edu/careers/surveyoutcomes/salaries-by-jobfunction.html

    31 in IB and S&T. And this is all IBs and trading firms (HFs/prop firms). One organization at Duke alone, Deutshe bank, which comes in at number 12 on that list took 10 undergrads. (http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2007/05/exitstats.html) Thats 1/3 of NW's TOTAL size and DB sits near the bottom of that list.

    So how exactly does and I quote NW "recruiting from elite IB/consulting firms" if Duke isn't, according to you, not even recruited.

    So in conclusion, get your facts straight.
    I apologize for the appearance of ****. I am just defending my statements.
  • Sam LeeSam Lee Registered User Posts: 9,449 Senior Member
    mahras2,

    I didn't even read your posts on this thread. In fact, I only read the first couple pages. Funny how you thought I was talking about Duke. I was just talking about a GENERAL case. If the numbers are such that no more than 2 go to the same firm, then having 2 in GS already make it the largest employer. Is that not true? What I was saying is how many exactly are we talking about. jnpn didn't provide that number. Certainly, 15 at GS would be enough of an evidence that it's a target. So Duke is a target! NU "doesn't place this well"? NU's MMSS alone had 4 kids landing internships with GS in 2004/2005 and we are talking about a class of 20 freshmen/20 sophomores per year. Northwestern may not be Wharton/Harvard but I hope you didn't mean "poor" or I guess you are pretty prone to taking cheap shot at others. . What I said would apply to Northwestern also--that fact of "most common employer" ALONE doesn't NECESSARILY mean its a target school (fyi: GS was indeed one of the most commom employers for NU according to 2005 survey).
  • mahras2mahras2 Registered User Posts: 1,977 Senior Member
    I didn't even read your posts on this thread. In fact, I only read the first couple pages. Funny how you are the one that's overreacting and thought I was talking about Duke.

    I had made a point about common recruiters so I am not defending Duke alone. I am defending people who have used that argument. I don't like it when informed arguments are constructed as being uninformed and backed up my earlier point with the above post. I could have used some other school to back this up (but I know my school's numbers well).
    I was just talking about a GENERAL case. If the numbers are such that no more than 2 go to the same firm, then having 2 in GS already make it the largest employer. Is that not true?
    Yes. However, I have yet to see a school where the top employer gets 2 hires.
    NU "doesn't place this well"? NU's MMSS alone had 4 kids landing internships with GS in 2004/2005 and we are talking about a class of 40 kids.
    I did not say NW was poor in the recruiting dept. NW IS a recruited school. I wanted to show the fallacy of your statement. You can't say NW is recruited if you disagree that Ross (which has been mentioned in this thread) isn't recruited (but just so happens to land people at the gigs). Any school with a sizable population of kids going to banking is recruited. If it wasn't recruited, so many kids would not be able to make it in on their own.
  • Sam LeeSam Lee Registered User Posts: 9,449 Senior Member
    mahras2,

    Did I say Ross wasn't a target? I said the fact that GS is the largest employer alone doesn't necessarily mean it's a target. I just need to know one more number--how many-- to be convinced it's a target. Just because I raised my doubt doesn't mean I said the claim was false.
  • jnpnjnpn Registered User Posts: 787 Member
    I said the fact that GS is the largest employer alone doesn't necessarily mean it's a target. I just need to know one more number--how many-- to be convinced it's a target. Just because I raised my doubt doesn't mean I said the claim was false.

    That's not the point you tried to make earlier. Your original explanation for not giving top employer stats any legitimacy was:
    When you have so many trying to get into GS, it's really not that difficult to make GS one of the largest employers for your school grads unless your school is just mediocre.
  • Sam LeeSam Lee Registered User Posts: 9,449 Senior Member
    jnpn,

    So far you haven't even given how many students got the GS position. In a way, when you said it's the largest employer without providing the numbers (like Wharton's stats--70 out of 900), you gave people the impression that it's not hard to get GS jobs from Michigan (was that what you were trying to convey?). By the way, did you mean Michigan or Ross when you said GS is one of the top-4 employers?

    I was using just a hypothetical example to explain why one needs more info. No need to try to paint me as Michigan basher.
  • nodnardnodnard Registered User Posts: 467 Member
    If I can manage to get a job in IB (though I'm more interested in trading), GS/MS wouldn't even be my top choice.
  • jnpnjnpn Registered User Posts: 787 Member
    So far you haven't even given how many students got the GS position. In a way, when you said it's the largest employer without providing the numbers (like Wharton's stats--70 out of 900)

    It's already been stated in this thread.
    you gave people the impression that it's not hard to get GS jobs from Michigan

    I was just trying to convey that it isn't impossible.
    By the way, did you mean Michigan or Ross when you said GS is one of the top-4 employers?

    I meant Ross.
    No need to try to paint me as Michigan basher.

    Never tried to. I just think your arguments are a little "off".
  • bern700bern700 User Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,191 Senior Member
    Btw here is the full statistic on Goldman's "admission rate:"

    Number applicants for entry-level jobs (2005): 7,691
    Entry level hires (2005): 615
    Rate: 8%

    (Source: http://www.businessweek.com/careers/bplc/companies_4.htm)
This discussion has been closed.