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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12


Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 823 Member
    edited October 2017
    It sure is a good thing that the schools have developed their own carefully thought out system. Anyone who thinks a D1 school can field proper teams with walk ons has a very limited experience or understanding of D1 level sports. Without a major recruiting effort and likely letters the Ivies simply could not field any competitive D1 teams. People who did not attend an Ivy have absolutely no idea just how competitive they are about everything including sports. The H-Y Football Game is a major event at both schools and outsiders will never quite be able to understand the mentality. Winning that one game makes for a successful season in the minds of the alums. For all of it's flaws the schools today do about as good a job as can be done to balance all the competing interests. I never ceased to be amazed by the incredible people my children have met and roomed with during college. The other thing to keep in mind is that this most extreme competition only exists at a handful of medium sized private universities. The situation is much more predictable outside the top 5-8 schools or for LAC's.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 10,576 Senior Member
    It makes sense that if one's kid needed the athletic boost to get into a selective college, one would be in favor of that specific preference.

    But someone should have told my parents' Ivy that football is so important....longest losing streak in the Ivies (or period, who knows) during much of the time I was living there and the stands were mostly empty for every game.

    It's a wonder the college survived, since football is SOOO important.
  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 823 Member
    edited October 2017
    Far from being empty the stands are packed every year. This is one of the reasons H/Y are what they are. Outsiders often don't get it but the schools and alums consider this tradition very important and will do everything possible to preserves this tradition.





    The 1968 was the most famous and is still discussed today. I'm sure you have seen the comic character BD.


  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 10,576 Senior Member
    Obviously I was referring to a different Ivy, was that unclear?

    The state U I currently reside in makes a really big deal about football too, I get the appeal of the game to alumni and students there. But it's not exactly an academic powerhouse, certainly not ranked anywhere near the top 20.
  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 823 Member
    edited October 2017
    Of course you were talking about Columbia. It's not really about the game. It's about an ancient rivalry to be the best between the best. I know you don't understand and in truth most people don't get it. But for some strange reason it's important to the alums and as such the schools will always compete for the best players. Maybe someday you will have a chance to attend a game and you will see it's much more than you thought. My son couldn't believe the atmosphere the first time he attended. It's like a smaller version of Mich/Ohio St. game.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 10,576 Senior Member
    I highly doubt it, I've never been to any type of football game, ever. A member of my immediate family went to Yale and never attended a game. It wasn't his thing either.

    I don't dispute that the H-Y game is important to many, it may drum up alumni donations and improve school spirit. But I believe it to be an exception to the rule with regard to top Us and LACs. And there's a tradeoff in that most recruited players wouldn't otherwise be admitted.

    But I have no personal reason to critique the current holistic system. I did well in it in the 80s and so have my kids. We did it without being the beneficiaries of athletic/racial/gender/legacy/development preferences, though.
  • BKSquaredBKSquared Registered User Posts: 507 Member
    To add a bit of levity to the above discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kai4FL0MQ
  • SAYSAY Registered User Posts: 823 Member
    Yes that sums up the emotions pretty well. The LAC's are a different animal and can't be compared to HYPS for many reasons. Every major decision in life comes with consequences/tradeoffs. She obviously would prefer a different type of holistic system. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion but each and every system is open to critique when there are such limited positions and so many qualified students. There is no perfect answer and the current system seems to be least worst. If seats at HYPS could be traded in an open market I'm sure they could be sold for hundreds of thousands and probably even 7 figures such is the demand for these seats today.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 64,400 Senior Member
    Re: https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/10/09/cornell-students-revive-debate-whom-colleges-should-count-black

    Looks like someone has discovered the skilled-worker-immigrant effect.

    This effect is the reason for high educational attainment among Asian American people (since the number of skilled worker immigrants and their American-born descendents is large compared to the pre-existing Asian American population), although it is common that people assume that high educational attainment is somehow an inherent quality of race or national origin (rather than selection of skilled-worker immigrants). But now it has been noticed among African American people. If someone looked, s/he would probably find it among European American people.
  • sbjdorlosbjdorlo Registered User Posts: 4,850 Senior Member
    Thanks for the better link, ucb. Not sure why my link came out the way it did.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 64,400 Senior Member
    The extra stuff after the ? in your link looks like tracking add-ons that indicate what social media ad or campaign it came from.
  • IvyGrad09IvyGrad09 Registered User Posts: 211 Junior Member
    @AbstractMath I read your comments very impressed by your scary math skills, and your proposed design for a superior, taller, handsomer, brainier human race. You owned your exchanges.

    However, I hope you fall in love with an creative, short, average-looking, perhaps AA-admitted woman with whom to produce musical, philosophical, independently-minded children.

    This cold cruel world is much improved by Mozart. We need more designed along those lines.

  • IvyGrad09IvyGrad09 Registered User Posts: 211 Junior Member
    Missed the edit window--a creative
  • ELopez1275ELopez1275 Registered User Posts: 43 Junior Member
    edited October 2017
    The problem is that any system that lacks transparency is opt for bias. Not that any system has inherent pros and cons. The latter is intrinsic to all systems, the former can be fixed.
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