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Five Biggest Trends in College Admissions

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Replies to: Five Biggest Trends in College Admissions

  • BuckeyeMWDSGBuckeyeMWDSG Registered User Posts: 444 Member
    I don't know how one defines 'extremely advanced' or 'super advanced' but it's becoming more common for the kids to end up with an AA (basically knocking out all gen eds req) before their hs diploma. They began limiting this option to 30 semester credits a year, but added 7th and 8th grade eligibility.
  • BuckeyeMWDSGBuckeyeMWDSG Registered User Posts: 444 Member
    I noticed on the common app they even have a drop down for AA or AS for each college attended early, so must be very common.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,659 Senior Member
    The real goal of the Mastery Transcript Consortium is for more slots at selective colleges to go to private and boarding school students instead of public school kids. With GPA, it's a mathematical fact that half the class will be in the bottom half of their class, and colleges can roughly estimate class rank even when it's not explicitly provided. If the criteria is some vague character trait like adaptability, boarding schools can rate all their students as exceptional.
  • Mom2aphysicsgeekMom2aphysicsgeek Registered User Posts: 3,719 Senior Member
    edited September 1
    @BuckeyeMWDSG That article really skims the surface on a pretty major key point, academic readiness. While some college courses do not require pre-reqs that prohibit their access to younger students (history 101, for example), some courses are going to require significantly advanced students in order for them to be ready to take the courses. Not many high school students are going to be ready for calculus, cal-based physics, etc in 9th grade.

    An AA or AS is slightly different. Even so, many of those credits may or may not be transferable to a 4 yr institution. Early college is not always better. College grades follow the student. A student jumping into DE without the maturity or academic readiness for college level work cannot leave the grades behind like high school level courses.
  • lookingforwardlookingforward Registered User Posts: 24,535 Senior Member
    Thelonious, when I say to get away from stats and focus on the rest, why do you quote more stats?
    I do know what a number of top schools look for. I do not spill full beans on a pubic forum to kids who who want an easy shortcut, "tell me," without having researched their match (from the college's perspective.) If they feel qualified, they should be looking at what the colleges, themselves, say, what they offer, the sorts of kids they tout. Not what some other hs kid says on a Chance Me or some parent venting about crapshoots and declaring how slanted it all is.

    From my perspective, you don't get accepted to a TT for just "being yourself." It hinges on being the sort of kid the colleges want. One easy example. If the college likes kids who will test their boundaries and engage, don't go off presenting yourself as a unilateral loner and expect them to fall all over you. You can't hide behind passion, lol.
  • lookingforwardlookingforward Registered User Posts: 24,535 Senior Member
    edited September 1
    I don't think you anti-Mastery folks know where it's growing.

    Also, do you realize CB does not issue curricula for AP. They set criteria and resources, but teachers are able to somewhat modify, then submit for approval. (Or follow a sample, yes.) You can dig into AP audit.

    And boarding schools do not pull for each and every kid in the same directions. Sheesh.

    As for something like adaptability, the kid either shows it or not. It's rare a middling app can be saved by an LoR. Or that a kid who doesn't get it can suddenly turn out a super essay (on his own.).
  • VeryapparentVeryapparent Registered User Posts: 244 Junior Member
    edited September 1
    The test score optional thing is interesting. I have read that colleges benefit from it not in terms of opening up access to kids who may not have had the means for test prep etc but because only high scorers with submit scores then said school can use data for their own gain....can report a high average and raise status. Also too I've read if you want merit aid submitting high scores to a test optional school is the way to go. I guess in the long run test optional does help some kids which is great but makes me a bit suspicious is it about opening access or a marketing boon for a school? Seems a bit disingenuous.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 14,408 Senior Member
    @ucbalumnus The latter in your post #34. For the ones who never took APs to begin with, the discussion of APs or no APs or less emphasis on APs seems pretty irrelevant to this discussion as elitist as that might sound. :)

    It is possible to construct rigorous colleges at a public high school without the AP framework - and its associated costs and stress, both of which seem high IMO.

    The real reason more top boarding/private school kids get into selective colleges is because they are self-selected and academically more homogenous. APs/a mastery transcript, etc. are driving those college decisions. The reality of greater ability and high school preparation and the recognition of such by colleges drives that. The private schools aren't driving the process, but responding to what colleges want more of - deeper thinkers and mastery, not regurgitators. Again, read up on criticisms that college officials have to much of the AP curriculum. This isn't being spoon-fed to them by boarding and elite school officials. Again, not some big conspiracy or master plan. :)
  • turtle17turtle17 Registered User Posts: 96 Junior Member
    edited September 1
    Can you give me examples of "It is possible to construct rigorous colleges at a public high school without the AP framework - and its associated costs and stress, both of which seem high IMO" at public high schools with enrollments over 1000 across the country? I'm serious. One of the reasons I'm skeptical of the anti-AP stuff is all the alternatives I know of that come even close to being similar in terms of challenge are in very atypical environments - elite private schools, special public academies, etc.

    I don't agree that the AP criticisms from college officials have much to do with actual academic preparation. Students who come in with a lot of AP credits are a problem in other ways (fewer tuition dollars among them), but bumping up the required AP scores took care of any evidence I've seen that AP credits were given too easily. Put another way, as someone who teaches courses that require calculus, a 5 on BC is good enough.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,859 Senior Member
    edited September 1
    turtle17 wrote:
    Students who come in with a lot of AP credits are a problem in other ways (fewer tuition dollars among them),

    Some of the more selective private schools do not give much credit units, subject credit, or advanced placement for AP scores, but they may be even stingier with respect to college courses taken while in high school, and probably even stingier with respect to similar (or higher) level high school courses that are not dual enrollment or otherwise designated as college courses. So while they may criticize AP, they may be making the alternatives even less attractive for the advanced students.

    However, public schools may be more generous with credit units (though not necessarily subject credit or advanced placement) for AP scores, since most of their students are subsidized in-state students, so getting them graduated as quickly as possible may be among their motivations.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 14,408 Senior Member
    @turtle17 So you're a teacher? Do you find it not within the abilities of you and your fellow teachers to implement a curriculum for advanced calculus for high school students away from AP structure and testing? Is it really that hard to replicate?
  • lookingforwardlookingforward Registered User Posts: 24,535 Senior Member
    There's work involved in submitting one's own syllabus for the AP approval, too. Why can't one borrow from the AP criteria, when creating a non-AP alternative? Presumably, we're talking committed and properly educated teachers. Or are we going to sashay to pubics where teachers aren't competent?
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,859 Senior Member
    doschicos wrote:
    @turtle17 So you're a teacher? Do you find it not within the abilities of you and your fellow teachers to implement a curriculum for advanced calculus for high school students away from AP structure and testing? Is it really that hard to replicate?

    If @turtle17 is a high school teacher, does s/he have any incentive to design a single variable calculus course that has significantly different material coverage compared to AP calculus BC, for the typical one-year-ahead-in-math students who may take such a course in 12th grade? Seems like that would be more work for him/her, but less benefit for the students, who would be less likely to have the option of getting any credit or advanced placement from a high school single variable calculus course without any AP or other external validation.

    Now, you could make that argument for some of the lower value AP courses like human geography and environmental science, but calculus is the subject where this argument is the weakest.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 14,408 Senior Member
    @ucbalumnus Why not? Anything you create can be used for many years, right? Calculus isn't changing and evolving. :) As far as incentive, the school can take some of the $$ it is spending on AP and redirect it towards a stipend for those teachers helping create new curriculum. Might be a nice financial supplement and project during a summer for dedicated teachers. How would the student not get credit if their transcript indicates they took a more advanced level of a course and accomplished greater mastery of the subject vs a more basic level? Seems pretty straightforward to me.
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