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Legacies, full pay and donors. Misguided anger?

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Replies to: Legacies, full pay and donors. Misguided anger?

  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 4,052 Senior Member
    I think the ED bump is real, but more so at bigger universities. At small lacs, a much bigger percentage of the class are athletes so the ED number is more misleading there.
  • privatebankerprivatebanker Registered User Posts: 3,055 Senior Member
    edited March 7
    @lookingforward

    I agree totally. It’s all incremental. I was responding to another post about how these school districts are disadvantaged. And the outcomes of lower SES students are at a big disadvantage.

    I think there are always students who fight through obstacles.

    I have a no expertise in the education front except as informed local taxpayer. I see it more on the foster care front where I spend a lot of time.

    Personally open to all ideas in improving the lives of children. But also knowing that we have been trying certain fixes for years and if the results aren’t there we should try other things. Like open conversations about these matters.

    Also too many people on cc seem to believe if you are not a direct part of that community. You have no useful voice. I disagree with that premise. Because starting points and current points in life as you correctly outline, can change.
  • hebegebehebegebe Registered User Posts: 2,471 Senior Member
    Word on the street was JFK wasn’t a NM finalist either. It’s been an issue for a longtime. But sometimes these admits do become something and a point of pride for the school too.
    I think the key lesson to be learned from JFK is to select parents powerful enough to take something JFK himself called a military failure (his PT-109 experience) and turn him into a war hero by first finding a writer willing to publish a propaganda article, another one willing to write a book, and finally have your father shadow-direct a feature film.

    Budding plutocrats and politicians should take note.
  • privatebankerprivatebanker Registered User Posts: 3,055 Senior Member
    edited March 7
    I think President Kennedy was a little more than that as a human being. Both flawed and excellent too.

    But as I stated in my original premise. If all you say is true and he and parents deserve or earned nothing in life

    Is it still valuable for the other kids that come after the JFKs if the world who pay money build buildings or drive donations (as I think jfk did) over time do the money Is there for them or educators paid for to teach them etc.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 12,284 Senior Member
    @elodyCOH I think "full pay" in the case used by ucb assumes a college that "meets full need" which Tulane does not.
  • elodyCOHelodyCOH Registered User Posts: 338 Member
    @OHMomof2 We are full pay pretty much everywhere. EFC is above 55K per year and no way we could ever pay that.
  • tpike12tpike12 Registered User Posts: 305 Member
    @privatebanker - increasing two-parent family formation would improve educational outcomes. Way too many children are being born out of wedlock.
  • Data10Data10 Registered User Posts: 2,706 Senior Member
    edited March 7
    We are full pay pretty much everywhere. EFC is above 55K per year and no way we could ever pay that.
    Different colleges have different FA, even among colleges that claim to meet full financial need. Many of the highly selective colleges that are frequently discussed on this site do frequently give large aid to persons in the $200k+ income range. For example, Yale prints FA stats by income at https://admissions.yale.edu/financial-aid-prospective-students . A summary is below.

    $65k-$100k Income -- 99% qualify for aid, Average scholarship is $64k
    $100k-$150k Income -- 96% qualify for aid, Average scholarship is $54k
    $150k-$200k Income -- 88% qualify for aid, Average scholarship is $39k
    $200k-$250k Income -- 64% qualify for aid, Average scholarship is $25k

    However, there are also many colleges that give little aid to typical middle income families. Selective colleges with large endowments and a large portion of students coming from wealthy families tend to have outstanding FA that is far beyond typical.
  • lookingforwardlookingforward Registered User Posts: 31,170 Senior Member
    Values are what promotes drives. They aren't limited to higher SES.
    It's true that many single parent households struggle financially. But don't confuse that with goals and the goods to reach them.

    Kennedy applied to college over 80 years ago, Times were different. Jared applied 20 years ago. Back about then, competition was less, app numbers far lower (less than 50% of now,) and admit percentages much higher. We don't know that Malia wasn't a fine candidate. Nor is any of getting an admit as simple as applying with a resume.

    And colleges tend to make financial support look easier than it is, for higher ranges. H used to tout some 180k family getting substantial aid..it turned out there were 6 kids, 3 of whom in college simultaneously. (Back before NPCs.)
  • sgopal2sgopal2 Registered User Posts: 3,234 Senior Member
    edited March 7
    We are in the midst of an arms race, plain and simple. Colleges are competing for the best students, and the only way get a leg up is to have better amenities. These things cost money, a lot of it.

    The fundraising prowess at many of these colleges are bigger than most people imagine. Most donors are honest people who simply want to give back. Colleges need donor money, but yet they don't want to give the appearance of a quid pro quo. But behind the scenes, if you give enough money, they will take your kid. Read Daniel Golden's book, its enlightening. Why would colleges continue to ask for alumni donations if it didn't work?

    How to get around this? Look no farther than our friends in Western Europe -- public funded universities whose primary mission is education. Not building more overstocked gyms and helping students master the art of beer-pong. Get rid of all of the extraneous BS on college campuses: dining halls, residence halls, gyms, intercollegiate athletics, etc. Be more like European schools where students live at large in the community and cook their own meals in shared apartments. This would do two things: bring the cost of education dramatically down, and also reduce the upward pressure on competition. This would reduce school spirit, and naturally the urge to raise more money. Get rid of any sort of preference: legacy, athletic, donor, etc.

    While we're at it, we should probably get rid of standardized test monopolies like the ACT and SAT. Instead do something like the British A levels where every student studies the same thing, and gets tested at the end of the year on the same metrics. Those who get a certain number of A's in these courses could then apply to the top level schools. UK schools are very explicit in how many A's are needed at A level to even apply.

    The ultimate equalizer would be a random lottery. Let each school pick their own criteria for 'competence'. SAT of 1450+ along with GPA > 3.5. Anyone meeting these criteria can then get a ticket to the lottery. After that leave it up to random chance.
  • jimmymjimmym Registered User Posts: 49 Junior Member
    Thanks @privatebanker - my son is fine. He was admitted into 10 schools so far and just waiting on 3 (but 3 toughest to get in).

    I think we all (I'm guilty) stress out too much about an individual school when our kids can thrive at numerous colleges. It's about how hard the student works in college anyway, and we just hope they pick right school to have a great experience.

    Good luck everyone - we are in final stretch.
  • MmeZeeZeeMmeZeeZee Registered User Posts: 562 Member
    @sgopal2 I could not agree more.

    The truth is that our system is easily game-able and it creates a really difficult situation for students. The idea of cutoffs and a lottery is refreshing. I agree it would be much more fair.
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