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Feds uncover admissions test cheating plot

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Replies to: Feds uncover admissions test cheating plot

  • jcwjnw99jcwjnw99 Registered User Posts: 126 Junior Member
    @PurpleTitan - I just don’t see USC as “blatantly” gaming their ranking. If they were, they would have started an ED program when all the top schools got involved. Are schools aware of their ranking? I’m sure most are aware. Some more than others. I’m not even saying USC isn’t more interested in their rank than other schools.

    For a while now, USC’s percentage of Pell Grant recipients has been one of the highest of the top 30 as well. I believe this is the first year some ranking institutions have added that to the mix. I’m sure that helped USC this year. Is that going to be a criticism as well? USC was doing this well before it was factored into the rankings.
  • Waiting2exhaleWaiting2exhale Registered User Posts: 2,729 Senior Member
    @privatebanker:

    "But in the end we have to be happy for the kids who go there. Or anywhere. They are neighbors and fellow citizens. Wish them well."

    Were this level of humility, graciousness and unfettered goodwill the mainstay of responses to the news of another's happiness and success in their endeavors.
  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone Registered User Posts: 20,579 Senior Member
    ^^But then you could argue that the test optional schools are being unfair to those who took the tests and scored well., or all the other things considered in the holistic approach weren't available to you/kids.

    Life just isn't fair.
  • privatebankerprivatebanker Registered User Posts: 3,055 Senior Member
    @Waiting2exhale Like many things in life, it’s aspirational.
  • mtmindmtmind Registered User Posts: 18 Junior Member
    edited March 16
    @PurpleTitan. Sure, and that is consistent with my post, Give bright kids a better chance to succeed and they will, whatever their socioeconomic background or race. (You left that part out when quoting me)
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,917 Senior Member
    "The Ivy League schools retain their athletic teams (even when zero students show up at sailing meets to bask in their supposed glory) because alumni from those sports would go berserk if the teams were cut. That's it. That's the whole reason."

    Welp, that explains why the sports the Ivies participate in are very much the pursuits of upper-class Americans of 100 years ago, then.

    Though that still isn't a reason for Ivy ad coms to allow coaches so much power over admissions (outside of the marquee sports like football, basketball, hockey). Why wouldn't the entire league agree to only allow coaches to tip rather than handing them admission slots? Do even the alumni care if Yale field hockey is mediocre so long as they are competitive with Harvard?
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,917 Senior Member
    edited March 16
    @mtmind, the entire Ivy League would have to essentially agree to recruit like NESCAC schools (or other DivIII schools that give coaches even less power).

    And yes, beating Harvard with true walk-ons would be glorious. It would also happen maybe once every 50 years or so, if that. It would be akin to putting the U of C football team (the current one, not the Stagg-led powerhouses) vs. an Ivy. Which would be similar to making an Ivy face off against Stanford in football.
  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone Registered User Posts: 20,579 Senior Member
    Why wouldn't the entire league agree to only allow coaches to tip rather than handing them admission slots?

    Coaches don't have unlimited admission power. The student still has to apply and go through admissions. If they didn't care about the academics, why would Singer require his clients to get higher test scores? Most get a pre-read so they know they will be accepted, but how many pre-reads are denied or how many the coach wouldn't even submit because they just didn't have the stats? Those numbers aren't released. The coaches know the criteria and don't even submit those who don't meet the AI at the Ivies or the requirements of other schools, no matter how low or how high they are. Stanford lets in football players with ACT of 24. They aren't taking the place of any engineer. If they didn't accept the football players, they'd let the spots go unfilled.

    The Ivies have some very competitive teams, and some of those athletes have excellent stats on and off the field. It is a sports conference and they set their own rules (AI, number of scholarships allowed, no scholarships, etc). If you don't like that the Ivies give about 10% of the spots to athletes, don't apply. It is sort of like complaining that Georgetown is 'too catholic' or that MIT doesn't offer enough art classes. The schools get to decide what they offer, who they accept, who gets scholarships or aid.
  • citymama9citymama9 Registered User Posts: 2,575 Senior Member
    This may sound strange, but has anyone else here wondered if any of the people who were caught will kill themselves? I was thinking of Lori Laughlin and her family for some reason. I'm not even angry anymore. I read all these articles and I find myself feeling bad for these people. Am I alone?
  • PlotinusPlotinus Registered User Posts: 927 Member
    edited March 16
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/15/sports/yale-soccer-meredith.html

    Profile of the Yale women's soccer coach, the first person to be caught in the sting operation.

    Players on the Yale soccer team were suspicious about what was going on:
    Some players, speaking on condition of anonymity so as not to be ensnared in the investigation, also began to notice a player or two, every couple of years, who did not belong on a Division I team, based on their skill level. Some of those players came from wealthy families, prompting speculation that their parents had donated money in exchange for coveted recruiting spots.

    So the players had suspicions but no one working for the university had any?

    And if there were a player or two every couple of years, how many fraudulent Yale admits were there? Will anything be done about those who have graduated?
  • calmomcalmom Registered User Posts: 20,347 Senior Member
    If a student gets admitted because the coach was bribed, the only "spot" that student has taken is one that would have gone to another athlete for the same sport. And only one... not every single athlete who wishes they could have been recruited but never even got a call from the coach. Basically, if the coach has 3 spots, and sells one -- then the person who was 4th in line is the one who got messed over.

    So yes, someone has been displaced, but no one owned or was entitled to the spot.

    And I know nothing about athletic recruiting, but I am sure that favors and favoritism goes on at all levels, even without overt bribes or payoffs or big donations. That's pretty much the way things work in just about everything in life, whether it is college admission or who gets promoted in a workplace.
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