Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.
Introducing a New Expert Content Section: Careers!

breaking early decision

bd178bd178 Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
edited March 2008 in College Admissions
if you break an early decision, what schools are notified...for example, all selective schools in the country, all schools in the country, all in the continent? does anyone know the workings and extent of this mysterious, omnipotent intercollege cooperation with regard to early decision?
Post edited by bd178 on
«13456715

Replies to: breaking early decision

  • kk19131kk19131 Registered User Posts: 2,233 Senior Member
    Colleges can and most likely will only 'tell' other ED schools. However, I don't think this is actually widely practiced. I'm sure admission counselors and their staffs have better things to do than being vindictive toward students who don't uphold their ED agreements.
  • mikesownmikesown Registered User Posts: 483 Member
    Don't bother even trying. Kids on CC have tried the same thing, and have gotten their acceptances rescinded from all of their schools. Imagine applying ED, having colleges notify each other, and getting kicked out of every single one? It would suck.
  • kk19131kk19131 Registered User Posts: 2,233 Senior Member
    "Imagine applying ED, having colleges notify each other, and getting kicked out of every single one? It would suck."

    -I find this VERY hard to believe. First, how would one random college know to what schools the applicant applied? Second, why would it care enough to blacklist the applicant? Third, why would ALL the other schools listen to what the college said- just for the sake of doing so???
  • mikesownmikesown Registered User Posts: 483 Member
    1. Because the colleges share the information. They all report the ED applicants to each other in the interest of keeping everyone honest and making sure that no other school steals their ED applicant.

    2. Because they want an honest student. Do you really think a school like Harvard(example) would want a student breaking a signed contract attending their school?

    3. Because they want to make sure that no one steals their own applicants.
  • kk19131kk19131 Registered User Posts: 2,233 Senior Member
    "1. Because the colleges share the information. They all report the ED applicants to each other in the interest of keeping everyone honest and making sure that no other school steals their ED applicant."

    - I happen to know for a FACT that several schools DON'T do this. I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Are you saying that there is some huge list containing ALL ED applicants- a list that is available to, AND checked by, ALL colleges????

    "2. Because they want an honest student. Do you really think a school like Harvard(example) would want a student breaking a signed contract attending their school?"

    -First, ED is not a 'contract' it's an agreement. And sure, a college would want a student if his scores are high enough, despite what another school says. I find it difficult to believe that Local State U (I don't even know if it's legal in some places) would reject a student just because he didn't uphold an ED agreement. I also don't think that all elite schools would do this either. I just don't see admissions offices caring enough to blacklist individual students- it's a waste of time and effort.

    "3. Because they want to make sure that no one steals their own applicants."

    -That may be so, but that doesn't say why ALL other schools would rescind their acceptances- it doesn't make sense. Even if some want to preserve the stability of the system, I find it hard to believe that there is a massive conspiracy concerned with blacklisting applicants who don't uphold ED....

    Despite what some colleges would like people to believe, students don't HAVE to attend the school that accepted them ED. This is simply a fact.
  • mikesownmikesown Registered User Posts: 483 Member
    1. I'm not saying that every single college does this. I know for a fact at least the ivies share lists.

    2. Well, it's a signed document stating "by signing this document you agree to withdraw all other admissions." While it doesn't contain any 'punishments' for breaking it, I would consider it to be a contract, though that could be disputed. I don't know of anyone who's been punished legally for this. Furthermore, yes it IS a positive thing for admissions offices to blacklist someone. Think about it- you've got a cheating person on your hands breaking an agreement. Do you want them being associated with your university-- EVER? If they do that sort of thing(breaking an agreement), who's to know that they won't plagiarize, or even publish something widely that's plagiarized. That may be going too far, but you get the point. No one wants to have that kind of kid at their schools.

    3. Think about it. Pretend you're the president of a top school like Harvard University. Now, would you want to participate in a list in which you gave the names of all ED applicants in exchange for the commitment you would not accept any ED applicants from other school? It's a fair trade. You give the names of your applicants, and you get guaranteed that none of your ED applicants will go to any of the other schools.
  • oldfortoldfort Registered User Posts: 21,921 Senior Member
    KK - you are so wrong. I hope kids on CC do not take your advise. Another point is that any respectable high school college counselor would not allow you to break your ED contract (if they ever want to get another student into that school again), therefore they probably would not be willing to prepare your packet for other schools. You HS is usually notified when you get into your ED school.
  • kyledavid80kyledavid80 Registered User Posts: 8,093 Senior Member
    ^^ so far, I haven't seen any evidence presented backing either side's points, so I don't think anyone can make such an assessment.
  • ChedvaChedva Super Moderator Posts: 29,569 Super Moderator
    All schools require second semester updates from your guidance counselor with first semester grades. Many high schools check with your ED school to determine if you were accepted (and many colleges send that info to the guidance counselors). In those schools, the GC simply doesn't send your first semester transcript to your non-ED schools (at least for EDI). And some, for EDII schools, don't send out the transcripts until the EDII decision was made. Therefore, the remainder of your RD applications are incomplete, and will not be processed. And they can also withhold first semester grades from any school you were admitted to rolling; the rolling acceptances are contingent on receipt of your transcript.

    In those situations, there's no decision to be made. You only have your ED school. Simple.
  • DanE0523DanE0523 Registered User Posts: 137 Junior Member
    i went to a claremont mckenna info session, and they said that they share their ED applicants with most of the other LAC's

    if you end up on more than one list, then you are in big trouble

    so kk, there is some proof
  • gxinggxing Registered User Posts: 1,915 Senior Member
    there is an enforced blacklist for students that breaking the ED agreement, at least among the ivies. my friend's brother applied ED to penn a few years ago, but applied to harvard and other ivies as well. he chose harvard, citing insufficient aid, but penn found out and all the other ivies he got into blacklisted him (including harvard). he ended up going to MIT
  • cory123cory123 Registered User Posts: 1,825 Senior Member
    haha how unfortunate
  • kk19131kk19131 Registered User Posts: 2,233 Senior Member
    “KK - you are so wrong. I hope kids on CC do not take your advise. Another point is that any respectable high school college counselor would not allow you to break your ED contract (if they ever want to get another student into that school again), therefore they probably would not be willing to prepare your packet for other schools. You HS is usually notified when you get into your ED school.”

    -I am not ‘wrong’ simply because you say so. I ALWAYS say this when talking about ED; that is, I always say that a person’s high school could loose out on getting more people admitted to the school in question if he doesn’t uphold his ED agreement. HOWEVER, ED agreements ‘require’ that a person withdraws his applications from other schools if and when he is accepted. If a student has already applied to other schools, the counselor would not have to “prepare his packet for other schools” as this would already be done. Are you insinuating that a high school guidance counselor can now ‘force’ a student to attend a college? This is purely absurd.

    ED agreements are honor-bound agreements. They are not enforceable ‘contracts’. Things are neither legal - nor even binding- just because the people who created them say so. Just because a college says that a student HAS to attend if he is accepted doesn’t make it so.

    “All schools require second semester updates from your guidance counselor with first semester grades. Many high schools check with your ED school to determine if you were accepted (and many colleges send that info to the guidance counselors). In those schools, the GC simply doesn't send your first semester transcript to your non-ED schools (at least for EDI). And some, for EDII schools, don't send out the transcripts until the EDII decision was made.”

    -I don’t know what kind of school YOU attend/ed, but my high school doesn’t allow guidance counselors to withhold transcripts from students. In fact, I think it may be the LAW in my city/state that a school MUST provide students with transcripts if they ask for them, so all this talk about only having one option for college is pretty ridiculous.

    -I applied ED, and at the SAME TIME, applied RD to other schools; my applications were ALL completed at the same time. This is why ED schools want students to withdraw their applications from other schools…

    “In those situations, there's no decision to be made. You only have your ED school. Simple.”

    -There is ALWAYS a decision to be made. A high school counselor can not ‘force’ a student to attend a particular college, nor can a college ‘force’ a student to take on debt to pay for it.

    “i went to a claremont mckenna info session, and they said that they share their ED applicants with most of the other LAC's

    if you end up on more than one list, then you are in big trouble

    so kk, there is some proof”

    -Honestly, I don’t really believe this, but I’ll entertain it nevertheless. Can a college share its ED list with other schools? Sure, but only if it first tells you it does this. Can Claremont get its peer schools to rescind acceptances to a student who doesn’t uphold the ED agreement? Possibly. I, however, find it VERY hard to believe that there is one large, centralized list shared by all ED schools. This seems like a scare tactic used to make people believe that ED is actually something it is not. The more the ED ‘conspiracy’ is pushed, the more potential students fear not upholding the agreement.

    “there is an enforced blacklist for students that breaking the ED agreement, at least among the ivies.”

    -People keep saying this, yet at least one CCer who works in an admissions office at Cornell says this DOES NOT happen. How do you explain this? Are you saying that your beliefs are more correct than what someone who actually works in an Ivy admissions office says in fact happens?

    “my friend's brother applied ED to penn a few years ago, but applied to harvard and other ivies as well. he chose harvard, citing insufficient aid, but penn found out and all the other ivies he got into blacklisted him (including harvard). he ended up going to MIT”

    This seems like a flat out lie. If the student did have insufficient aid to attend Penn, then he darn sure didn’t have to. The one actually known ‘break clause’ of the ED agreement is that a student doesn’t have to attend the school that admitted him if the finaid offered by the school doesn’t make it possible to attend the school. This is most certainly left up to the student and his family to decide, not the college (otherwise there would be no such clause). So, I find your little story very hard to believe. If the student got accepted to Penn in say December, but didn’t attend and got accepted to Harvard SEVERAL months later, how can Penn ‘find out’ and why would Harvard just withdraw its acceptance? This doesn’t make any sense, and neither does your little made up story.
  • ChedvaChedva Super Moderator Posts: 29,569 Super Moderator
    kk, a high school is not allowed to withhold the transcript from the student; however, they are not required to send certified transcripts if doing so would allow you to break the agreement. Additionally, guidance counselors also certify that you understand the rules of ED, and will not break the agreement.

    Even assuming that the GC must send the certified transcripts, there is nothing to stop the GC from also adding a note that the student has been accepted ED elsewhere. And around here, they do.

    Second, you state that you applied ED and RD at the same time so your apps were complete at the same time. However, if you read my post, you'll see I'm talking about the transcript of first semester senior year grades. If you had them available by Nov. 15 (the ED date), then perhaps you're correct. But I doubt it.

    Third, colleges do not need to tell you that they are sharing lists of who was accepted ED. Your name and the fact of your acceptance are not privileged or private and they can be shared. (Yes, I have gone to law school.)

    But forgive me, kk - I forgot that at 20, you know everything.
  • loslobos71loslobos71 . Posts: 1,769 Senior Member
    Early Decision is indeed a contractual agreement.
«13456715
This discussion has been closed.