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Is College of the Holy Cross considered an elite school?

13

Replies to: Is College of the Holy Cross considered an elite school?

  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    @LaxMass - yes Yale was in the tournament as was Duke and they along with all 68 teams were part of the rankings, they just didn't make it to the top. Now, to be fair, the only metric was athlete graduation rate, but still Holy Cross was #1 and the fun little analysis also had Notre Dame, Villanova and Butler as the the 'final four'.

    And yes, there are as you put it 'a thousand reasons' for the BC cross application list having nothing to do with the quality of Holy Cross, the most obvious being that the 10 schools on that list are all Universities with not a LAC on the list. (Holy Cross is a LAC and BC is 3x the size). Most students applying to college have a preference for LAC vs University and this list certainly bears that out. Many kids do not consider Holy Cross or other similar LACS because they do not have a business school or nursing program as BC and many of the schools on that list do. I don't see Williams, Swat Amherst or any LAC for that matter on that list. Another reason has to do with EA policies. BC, Villanova and UVA, benefit in terms of number of applications they receive by having EA. You have high achieving kids with a reach heavy list applying to Villanova and BC, because if they get a favorable response before Christmas, they can cross some safeties off the list and not have to submit safety apps in Jan -then just wait to see what reaches they get in.
    And finally, you keep mentioning that HC is 'slipping', but in the established rankings which are based on some type of quantitative metrics (vs qualitative musings) HC seems to be doing just fine.
    #3 in the Catholic college ranking, ahead of both BC and Villanova, #32 on US News LAC ranking, #25 on Forbes LAC ranking. So not in the same sphere as LACs like Amherst, Pomona and Williams, but all in all pretty darned good.
    I echo the other poster that suggested to you, that as an alum, if you have concerns you may want to share them with the school. Perhaps offer to endow a merit scholarship?
  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    @wisteria100: I wrote: "Not a surprise a Patriot League representative was near or at the top. Yale was in the tournament too and was not counted in the rankings."

    You then replied "yes Yale was in the tournament as was Duke and they along with all 68 teams were part of the rankings, they just didn't make it to the top."

    You are just flat out wrong: "One important note: Ivy League schools, and the military academies, do not report federal graduation rates for their sports programs. So in the men's tournament, Yale was excluded, while Penn, Princeton, and Army were not counted in the women's rankings." This quote is from the link you provided.

    I don't have the time to address the rest of your reply except to note the list is directly related to my observations immediately above the list and has nothing to do with Williams, Amherst, etc.
  • ironcity50ironcity50 Registered User Posts: 69 Junior Member
    Comparatively speaking, Duquesne merit and grant package was the worst out of 4 schools my son was accepted to and my wife and I are alumni.
  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    @wisteria100:

    First you wrote this: "In fact, last year in the NCAA tournament, Holy Cross was ranked dead last for basketball, but out of the 68 teams competing, they were ranked #1 academically.
    http://time.com/4276806/final-four-ncaa-tournament-academic-rankings/ "

    Then I wrote: "Not a surprise a Patriot League representative was near or at the top. Yale was in the tournament too and was not counted in the rankings."

    You then replied "yes Yale was in the tournament as was Duke and they along with all 68 teams were part of the rankings, they just didn't make it to the top. Now, to be fair, the only metric was athlete graduation rate, but still Holy Cross was #1... "

    I then replied: "You are just flat out wrong: "One important note: Ivy League schools, and the military academies, do not report federal graduation rates for their sports programs. So in the men's tournament, Yale was excluded, while Penn, Princeton, and Army were not counted in the women's rankings." This quote is from the link you provided.

    You now reply "@LaxMass here is the link to the graduation rates - Yale is included
    http://nebula.wsimg.com/6729bb35e3e2f1396de38f374d302a86?AccessKeyId=DAC3A56D8FB782449D2A&disposition=0&alloworigin=1";

    This other source does not indicate Holy Cross was ranked #1 academically last year in the NCAA tournament
    as you originally broadly claimed nor does it indicate Holy Cross was ranked above Yale for 'athletic graduation rate' as you subsequently and much more narrowly claimed.

    It (your second source) does indicate about ten schools (Butler, Holy Cross, Duke, Middle Tennessee, Dayton, etc.) as having a 100% graduation rate for basketball players and has four schools identified with the highest score (98%) for overall student-athlete graduation rate (Duke, Holy Cross, Notre Dame and Yale).

    I'll assume your other claims, statistics, and citations are more accurate than this particular one (the only one I actually bothered to check BTW).
  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    @LaxMass
    This is what it says exactly-
    No team entered the NCAA men's basketball tournament with a worse record than Holy Cross, a Jesuit liberal arts school with 2,855 students in Worcester, Mass.
    If the men's hoops brackets mimicked academic performance, however, Holy Cross would be cutting down the nets. According to new academic rankings compiled by the Washington think tank New America and shared exclusively with TIME, the small college had the strongest academic ranking of all 68 teams in the men's tournament.
  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    @wisteria100: Now you are flipping back to your first source. The precise source that clearly states: "One important note: Ivy League schools, and the military academies, do not report federal graduation rates for their sports programs. So in the men's tournament, Yale was excluded, while Penn, Princeton, and Army were not counted in the women's rankings."

    Beyond that, lets agree that while Holy Cross may no longer be considered an 'elite school' (another poster patiently explained [see #20 and #24] why an average enrolled freshman ACT score of 29 derived from a 'test score optional' source is not indicative of an 'elite' school) it is a very good school. This is leaving aside any question of defining 'elite' (the original thread question) or whether or not one ever considered Holy Cross to be an 'elite' school. Regardless of size or category. We can also agree that HC skews its merit aid sharply in the direction of athletics rather than academics. That is leaving aside separate issues such as financial aid, need blind admissions, meeting full student need, etc.. Further, we can certainly agree Patriot League representatives, like Ivy league representatives (or a school like Duke or Notre Dame), may very well and perennially have among the highest athlete graduation rates in the NCAA Division 1 Basketball, Baseball, Lacrosse, etc. tournament championships.

  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    @wisteria100: Now you are flipping back to your first source. The precise source that clearly states: "One important note: Ivy League schools, and the military academies, do not report federal graduation rates for their sports programs. So in the men's tournament, Yale was excluded, while Penn, Princeton, and Army were not counted in the women's rankings."

    Beyond that, lets agree that while Holy Cross may no longer be considered an 'elite school' (another poster patiently explained (#20, #24) that an average enrolled freshman ACT score of 29 derived from a 'test score optional' source is not indicative of an 'elite' school) it is a very good school. This is leaving aside any question of defining 'elite' (the original thread question) or whether or not one ever considered Holy Cross to be an elite school or whether or not one even wants Holy Cross to be considered an 'elite' school. . Regardless of size or category. We can also agree Holy Cross skews its merit aid sharply in the direction of athletics rather than academics. This is leaving aside separate issues such as other LACs, financial aid, need blind admissions, and fully meeting demonstrated need. Further, we can certainly agree Patriot League representatives, like Ivy league representatives (or a school like Duke or Notre Dame) , may very well and perennially have among the highest athlete graduation rates in the annual NCAA Division 1 Basketball, Baseball, Lacrosse, etc. tournament championships.

    I think I am on firm footing with the above.
  • HCPP20HCPP20 Registered User Posts: 16 New Member
    @patfan23 @wisteria100 Thanks for posting the impressive academic stats of College of the Holy Cross. Of interest ; Kiplinger's 2017 Top 50 Best College Values (Quality-competitiveness, graduation rates, academic support. Financial measures-cost, financial aid, student indebtedness) places Holy Cross at #27, right between Dartmouth College and Columbia University. In the Top 50 LAC's, Holy Cross is #15 in the company of Grinnell, Vassar, Colby, Hamilton, among others. So, no worries on the prestige, reputation or "elite" status front for HC students, alumni or parents.
  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 3,051 Senior Member
    @HCPP20 Thanks for posting the Kiplinger info. I had not seen that before.
    I also came across this ranking of Catholic colleges that just came out last week from College Factual. It has Holy Cross at #2
    http://www.collegefactual.com/rankings/religion/roman_catholic/
  • preppedparentpreppedparent Registered User Posts: 2,373 Senior Member
    Holy Cross may be in the same category as BC, Bates, Clark, UVM, Stonehill and other small liberal arts and Jesuit colleges. Well below Georgetown.
  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    edited February 25
    The "College Factual" rankings of Top Roman Catholic Colleges (#24, above) lists Notre Dame as 1, followed by Holy Cross at 2, Georgetown at 3, Boston College at 4, Villanova at 5, etc.

    http://www.collegefactual.com/rankings/religion/roman_catholic/
  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    Whoops. I meant the survey at #40, above.
  • LaxMassLaxMass Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    Not sure of the effect (if any) of this or any other ranking on Holy Cross' present reputation, but earlier today Holy Cross tweeted out: "The College of the Holy Cross has been ranked No. 1 among baccalaureate institutions in the United States for long-term study abroad programs, according to a recent report released by the Institute of International Education."

    https://****/holy_cross?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

  • CollegeGriotCollegeGriot Registered User Posts: 11 New Member
    Actually Holy Cross is #2 not 3 ahead of Georgetown and after Notre Dame
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