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Ivy-equivalents

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Replies to: Ivy-equivalents

  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,778 Senior Member


    BTW, if you use the criteria of 25th or higher in the 2 professional categories of "American Leaders" and Percentage in Elite Professional Schools + 75th or higher in the 2 academic categories of per capita PhDs and per capita prestigious student award (which all the Ivies meet),
    Stanford, MIT, Northwestern, Chicago, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore meet all 4 of those criteria.

    CalTech, Duke, Cal, Rice, JHU, Georgetown, Pomona, Wellesley, Wesleyan, Haverford, Bowdoin, Barnard, Oberlin, & Middlebury meet 3 of those 4 criteria.

    In the category of "Near-Ivies" (meeting all 4 less-strict criteria of 50th or higher in the 2 professional categories of "American Leaders" and Percentage in Elite Professional Schools + 100th or higher in the 2 academic categories of per capita PhDs and per capita prestigious student awards) are
    UMich, Notre Dame, Tufts, Vassar & Reed (UVa misses barely)
    as well as
    CalTech, Duke, Cal, Pomona, Barnard, Wellesley, Haverford, Bowdoin, Wesleyan
    but not
    JHU, Georgetown, Rice, Oberlin & Middlebury (Georgetown misses barely)
    from the group that met 3 of the original 4 criteria.

    So if you count as Ivy-equivalent those who meet all 4 original criteria <or> 3 of the 4 original criteria but still all 4 of the less-strict criteria (with the rest being "near-Ivies"), you get

    Ivy-equivalent:
    Stanford, MIT, Northwestern, Chicago, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore & CalTech, Duke, Cal, Pomona, Barnard, Wellesley, Haverford, Bowdoin, Wesleyan : 7 research universities and 9 LACs; (+ the 8 original Ivies, of course)

    Near-Ivies:
    JHU, Georgetown, Rice, Oberlin, and Middlebury & UMich, Notre Dame, Tufts, Vassar and Reed (and I'll throw UVa in here as well): 7 research universities and 4 LACs.

    BTW, both the USMA & USNA would make the Near-Ivies list handily if not for their subpar PhD production (but it's hard to hold that against them given their mission).
  • FindmoreinfoFindmoreinfo Registered User Posts: 253 Junior Member
    edited December 2014
    My thoughts of the two links in the first post of this thread:

    Using retension rate and graduation rate to measure an university is a mistake! The more regiorous a school is, the worse the ranking shows. This would encourage universities to set bar lower for graduation qualification and engage in grade inflation. These ranking criterias are just not right at all. I don't know why the education administration would come up with these kind of ideas, they introduced a huge impact in my university.
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,778 Senior Member
    Um, @Findmoreinfo, I don't use retention rate or graduation rate anywhere, so what the heck are you talking about?
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,778 Senior Member
    An amendment:

    Since I gave UVa credit for barely missing my criteria for being a Near-Ivy, I should give Bryn Mawr and CMU credit as well, since they also just barely miss.

    Rice just barely misses my criteria for being an Ivy-equivalent.

    So the revised list (with schools that barely miss in parentheses):
    HYPSM:
    HYPSM (Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore). WAS LACs are the only schools close to HYPSM. 5 RUs and (maybe?) 3 LACs

    (non-HYPSM) Ivy+Ivy-equivalent:
    Other Ivies + Northwestern, Chicago, & CalTech, Duke, Cal, Pomona, Barnard, Wellesley, Haverford, Bowdoin, Wesleyan (and Rice). 11 RUs and 6 LACs

    Near-Ivies:
    JHU, Georgetown, Oberlin, Middlebury & UMich, Notre Dame, Tufts, Vassar and Reed (and UVa, CMU, and Bryn Mawr): 7 research universities and 5 LACs.
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,778 Senior Member
    Still remiss. Georgetown barely misses the Ivy-equivalent tier, so:


    HYPSM:
    HYPSM (Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore). WAS LACs are the only schools close to HYPSM. 5 RUs and (maybe?) 3 LACs

    (non-HYPSM) Ivy+Ivy-equivalent:
    Other Ivies + Northwestern, Chicago, & CalTech, Duke, Cal, Pomona, Barnard, Wellesley, Haverford, Bowdoin, Wesleyan (and Rice & Georgetown). 12 RUs and 6 LACs

    Near-Ivies:
    JHU, Oberlin, Middlebury & UMich, Notre Dame, Tufts, Vassar and Reed (and UVa, CMU, and Bryn Mawr): 6 research universities and 5 LACs.
  • bambi0611bambi0611 Registered User Posts: 148 Junior Member
    Here is another list including both LAC and Research University. http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-colleges-in-america-2014-10
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,778 Senior Member
    edited January 2015
    @bambi0611, I specifically didn't use inputs as a measurement because they can be gamed. For instance, a college that simply admitted the applicants with the highest test scores would shoot up that ranking, but the applicants with the highest test scores may not be the ones with highest potential or contribute the most in class/to the school/to society. Furthermore, inputs tells you nothing about how good a job a school does in actually educating its student body.
    That's why I based my ranking solely on outputs (alumni achievements). Obviously, there is a strong correlation between inputs and outputs, and I'd rather have a smarter student body than a dumber student body, but I think that how well a school's alumni do tells you more about how good a school is than how high an SAT score their students got in HS.
  • bambi0611bambi0611 Registered User Posts: 148 Junior Member
    I agree with you. Only it is kind of hard to judge how well alumni do. Means goes to academic field like Phd's? Or how much alumni make? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-50-schools-that-produce-science-phds/ http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors#
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 11,778 Senior Member
    @bambi0611, well, you can look back through this thread.

    I used 4 metrics:
    1. Percentage entering elite professional schools (for MBA/JD/MD).
    2. Production of "American Leaders", who are mostly leaders in business, government, and the arts.
    3. Percentage winning prestigious national student awards.
    4. Percentage getting PhDs.

    The Ivies are all 25th or better in the first 2 "pre-professional" categories and 75th or better in the 2 "academic" categories.

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