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2018 US News Best Colleges rankings have been released

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Replies to: 2018 US News Best Colleges rankings have been released

  • sbballersbballer Registered User Posts: 445 Member
    Berkeley is a super brand in the world of universities and reports of its demise are greatly exaggerated year after year.

    even USNWR has Berkeley ranked 4th globally above Yale, Princeton etc. look at other world rankings and Berkeley often ranks higher in those lists too.

    as far as undergrad at Berkeley is concerned it's a very tough school... especially in any of the sciences. grading on bell curves, no or little grad inflation... and some of the smartest undergrads around = super competitive.

    you don't get a participation trophy at Berkeley
  • saillakeeriesaillakeerie Registered User Posts: 1,665 Senior Member
    Michigan has to be hurt by the fact that public ed in that state has been in free fall, with student scores falling for years. That is the pool for 1/2 of their freshmen. It can't be good.

    Looking back at the common data set for Michigan for 2006-7, 2012-13 and 2016-17, mid SAT critical reading is 580-690, 610-700 and 640-730, respectively. For SAT math its 630-730, 650-760 and 670-777. For ACT composite its 27-31, 28-32 and 29-33. Doesn't appear to evidence hurting. Maybe other colleges in Michigan are impacted by high school test scores declining in the state.
  • TomSrOfBostonTomSrOfBoston Registered User Posts: 11,346 Senior Member
    @Cleepople USNews does not consider research output. it is primarily and undergraduate ranking. The worldwide rankings are based heavily on research. Please read the methodology for each ranking.
  • IzzoOneIzzoOne Registered User Posts: 203 Junior Member
    @TomSrOfBoston , USNews includes financial resources in the undergraduate ranking, and resources includes research spending. (Although research spending may have no impact on undergraduate education and may even indicate a lack of focus on undergraduate education.) Research spending can also impact other categories like faculty resources.

    Research "output" probably impacts reputation, which is also factored into the undergraduate rating (even though producing published research and educated undergraduates are not necessarily correlated).

    Below is Financial resources description:

    Financial resources (10 percent): Generous per-student spending indicates that a college can offer a wide variety of programs and services. U.S. News measures financial resources by using the average spending per student on instruction, research, student services and related educational expenditures in the 2015 and 2016 fiscal years. Spending on sports, dorms and hospitals does not count.
  • northwestynorthwesty Registered User Posts: 2,746 Senior Member
    edited September 14
    "USNews includes financial resources in the undergraduate ranking, and resources includes research spending. (Although research spending may have no impact on undergraduate education and may even indicate a lack of focus on undergraduate education.) Research spending can also impact other categories like faculty resources."

    This is a prime reason why USNWR breaks out LACs from national universities. Because the metrics would be different for the apples and the oranges.
  • IzzoOneIzzoOne Registered User Posts: 203 Junior Member
    @northwesty , I agree that national universities and LACs differ (even though in this situation, the objective of both LACs and national universities is the same -- to educate undergraduates).

    Even among the national universities you have some apples and oranges. Dartmouth, William and Mary, Wake, etc. are quite dissimilar to large research universities, for instance. They are perhaps somewhere between LACs and national universities.
  • CU123CU123 Registered User Posts: 1,293 Senior Member
    Cal is a highly competitive university.........when you include its graduate programs which BTW are run very similarly to private universities. The problem lies with its undergrad program and funding. This is a common problem with public universities which puts all of their futures as top universities in doubt. If you can't see that then you are blind to the increasing class sizes and decreasing resources for undergrads at public unis.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,610 Senior Member
    Michigan has to be hurt by the fact that public ed in that state has been in free fall, with student scores falling for years. That is the pool for 1/2 of their freshmen. It can't be good.

    As shown by the following table, Michigan's school age population is in a long-term decline:

    http://milmi.org/population#Population-1223

    Currently, Michigan's cohort of 18 year old's is roughly 133,000 kids. That is projected to fall to the 115,000 range in the next 15 to 20 years. They will need significant amounts of immigration to offset that figure, but they could always import more students from OOS.
  • UCBChemEGradUCBChemEGrad Registered User Posts: 10,262 Senior Member
    ^ My alma mater has been irritating me with poor leadership. The Memorial Stadium renovation finance plan is a huge boondoggle that hasn't been adequately addressed. Cal will likely have to cut sports - it can't afford to maintain 31 varsity teams and stay within Title IX requirements.
  • Wisdom2shareWisdom2share Registered User Posts: 70 Junior Member
    edited September 14
    Did NEU fall in its ranking? All that game playing didn't boost the ranking
    Bu is 4 rankings ahead... I guess NEU has long way to go before catching up to BU
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,415 Senior Member
    NEU dropped 1 spot, from 39 to 40. That's noise in the system. It can't be viewed as a trend.
  • saillakeeriesaillakeerie Registered User Posts: 1,665 Senior Member
    As shown by the following table, Michigan's school age population is in a long-term decline:

    Despite this decline, as I already posted U of Michigan stats for incoming classes have been increasing. Seems to me the predicted demise of UofM that some of you seem to want to happen is premature.
  • Much2learnMuch2learn Registered User Posts: 4,378 Senior Member
    The whole US News process is strange, yet entertaining. The fact is that it is just not easy to establish reasonable criteria that will make Princeton come find it's way to #1 every year.

    For a start, there are few objective criteria by which Princeton or any other college is a better overall university than Stanford and Harvard whether it is for undergrad or grad school.

    Then if you oddly weight the criteria, to slide Princeton past Harvard and Stanford, there is a good chance that Yale, Columbia, Penn, Cal Tech, or Duke may slide past Princeton, into the #1 spot.

    So they start thinking, what will he have to do to get Princeton to end up at #1?

    1. Come up with an excuse to remove the LAC's. Then we can get Princeton to #1 in teaching.
    2. Decide that within universities, they'll only count undergrad even though it's inconsistent with removing LACs.
    3. Add add in the logarithmic adjustment to nudge them past Cal Tech.
    4. Avoid clear outcome metrics like salaries, because Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Penn are better.
    5. Base a big component of it on random surveys so you can rank however you want.

    There! Now you have Princeton at #1 in just five slightly bizarre steps.





  • CU123CU123 Registered User Posts: 1,293 Senior Member
    Princeton is a top university with a heavy undergrad focus, why wouldn't it come out on top in undergrad rankings? The other heavyweights have a bigger focus on their grad schools. Having no association with Princeton I would come to the same conclusion as USNWR as that is where they spend most of there money (undergraduate studies).
  • Much2learnMuch2learn Registered User Posts: 4,378 Senior Member
    @CU123 "why wouldn't (Princeton) come out on top in undergrad rankings? "

    Because if you are going to rank schools on undergrad focus, then there is no reason to remove the LACs. The problem is that if you don't remove them, Princeton won't be on top.

    So they have to come up with a ranking that essentially focuses on only undergrad, but removes all the schools that completely focus on undergrad. Very strange.




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