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Help choosing ED school, UVA or Cornell

Musicmom2015Musicmom2015 330 replies23 threadsRegistered User Member
My daughter has visited a dozen schools and her two favorites are Cornell and UVA. Since UVA has not had ED recently, she was initially deciding if she would ED Cornell and EA UVA, or should just do RD to Cornell. Now that UVA has added ED, the decision is a bit different.

Stats: 1560 SAT, 4.0 GPA uw, 4.6 w, 9 AP classes by senior year, waiting for scores on SAT 2, but if not great she will not submit
ECs are good, lots of leadership and community service, no sports, nothing at national level

Cornell: She did a summer class there last summer and had a great experience. She also was in the top 10% of her class so the teacher wrote her a rec letter. She would be applying to Dyson or ILR.
Pros: strong business school, strong overall reputation, large jewish population, less than 4 hours from home, she likes the campus. Cons: Dyson acceptance is 3% RD, not sure about ED, no idea for ILR, weather, is the school very intense or cutthroat? Not sure about that.

UVA: Visited during Spring Break. Loved campus, people she met, business school, etc. Pleasantly surprised by the Hillel offerings. Pros: strong business school, strong overall reputation, better chance of acceptance, good Hillel, good weather, likes the campus, maybe more relaxed vibe than Cornell?. Cons: Farther from home, smaller Jewish population, has to apply to business school in second year (she liked the idea of that, but having to apply in is still a con).

It is going to be totally her choice, but I am just trying to get some thoughts that might help her choose. I do think if she does ED to UVA she has a very good chance of being one and done, which is a huge plus. But I don't want her to make a 4 year decision just so senior year is more pleasant. How do the vibes of these schools compare? She is definitely not a partier, but she likes to be involved in things and she likes a vibrant campus feel. She is at a very competitive, stressful HS, so I'm hoping that college will be a bit more balanced.

If anyone has experience with either school and has food for thought, please share. Thanks.
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Replies to: Help choosing ED school, UVA or Cornell

  • momofsenior1momofsenior1 7266 replies56 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    ILR has a very focused curriculum that is quite different than Dyson. I would recommend looking closely at the course offerings and see which one better aligns with your D's interests.

    As far as ED bump, most students acceptance ED at Cornell have a hook - athletic recruits, legacy, URM.
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  • NJWrestlingmomNJWrestlingmom 1226 replies2 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited June 19
    My niece was a legacy accepted to Cornell ED; one and done. My D21 also at a very competitive, stressful HS has crossed it off the list because it does have that rep. My niece was not a partier but loved her time there. It is known as "the easiest Ivy to get into and the hardest to stay in". Grade deflation is real. My niece graduated with honors but worked her tail off. That said, she said there are plenty of resources there to help students if you are willing to reach out and ask for help.

    UVA has a become a very tough OOS admit as well. An ED bump at either would be very helpful.
    edited June 19
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  • IzzoOneIzzoOne 475 replies0 threadsRegistered User Member
    They are schools of similar size, but I'd say the feel is going to be different. Cornell is Ivy with Ivy sports, but is often thought of as a bit of an outlier in the Ivy League. UVA in ACC, a big sports conference. Cornell more STEM-oriented overall, which probably is the reason for the "grade deflation" comment above. (But note that almost no schools actually have grade deflation. They have varying degrees of grade inflation.) Cornell is more Northern and New York City influenced. UVA is more Southern (with better weather) and is more oriented to D.C. UVA will be 2/3rd Virginian.

    I'd actually say McIntire at UVA is perhaps little better overall than Dyson. Cornell perhaps places more on Wall Street largely due to location. Cornell's biggest academic advantage over UVA would probably be engineering. Outside of that, not too much difference.

    UVA OOS is a pretty tough admit, so the ED could help with both schools.
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  • LynnskiLynnski 245 replies12 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    My niece was at Cornell ILR as a grad student, and while it was certainly rigorous, her experience was *not at all* cutthroat or competitive. She found ILR very collaborative, and she made wonderful friends in ILR and through Hillel.

    The various colleges at Cornell have really different vibes as well as acceptance rates. IMO your daughter would be well-served by attending an info session that's specific to the college/s that interest her. We attended a couple of different sessions at Cornell and were struck by how different they were. I had the distinct impression that outside of the college of Arts and Sciences, admissions staff are especially receptive to connecting with individual students prior to application.
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  • 3SailAway3SailAway 424 replies6 threadsRegistered User Member
    I don’t have the knowledge to comment on curriculum or chances, but what jumped out to me is the difference in weather. I have two nieces at Cornell. We also live in a strong NY school district, so we know quite a few other kids there. They universally say that it is cold, dark, and rigorous. Most of them love that!

    I’m from VA, so I know UVA kids also, and a difference I see is that they have more opportunities for outdoor recreation—hiking, biking, intramural soccer, sand volleyball, softball, ultimate, capture the flag, there are just more options from November-April with nicer weather. Even just jogging or walking to class is easier.

    Of course, that may not be the most important factor for @Musicmom2015 ‘s daughter, but since seasonal affective disorder runs in our family, it would matter to us!
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  • rickle1rickle1 1935 replies17 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited June 20
    They would be very different experiences. UVA far more school spirit, ACC sports, party scene, great weather etc. Cornell more STEM and Quant focused, intense, etc.

    Both great but likely appeal to different kids. Academically and outcome wise she'll do great at either so I think it's more of a fit issue.
    edited June 20
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  • momofsenior1momofsenior1 7266 replies56 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Lack of school spirit? Clearly @rickle1 you have not attended a Cornell ice hockey game ; )

    I wouldn't call Cornell STEM focused. Cornell is at heart a liberal arts college. All majors, including student in COE need to take a number of LA courses. There are also plenty of non stem majors at Cornell.

    Agree though that it's more of a fit issue.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 29422 replies58 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    They are very different schools and I would leave the final decision as to which she really likes better for ED. That’s really what ED is all about. She has very good numbers so she’s as competitive as anyone for these two schools. Might as well go all out for the one she likes better

    If she really is torn between the two and feels she’d be happy at either, I’d say go ED for Dyson and EA for UVA. Also find at least one , preferably more good match and safety early schools, like Binghamton, perhaps. It’s devastating to some kids to get deferred and/or rejected from early schools and can really be a damper over the holidays and discouraging in terms of applying to other schools. I saw way too much of that. It would also have her safeties in place and she can apply with wild abandon RD if neither UVA nor Dyson pan out early. If one does, it’s game over for her and life is good.
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  • Ithroop2023Ithroop2023 13 replies1 threadsRegistered User New Member
    I second what @cptofthehouse said about EA to UVA and ED to Dyson.
    Cornell is not very cutthroat and it clearly does not lack any school spirit. I think that having to apply to the business school in the second year could be a disadvantage (in the case of UVA).
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  • oldfortoldfort 22949 replies290 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    The only downside is if she were to get admitted to Cornell then should have to attend and UVA is out.
    She should go where she wants to go.
    My kid ED Cornell and EA at UVA and UMichigan.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 29422 replies58 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    That is a downside with ED. Kids do change their mind. Buyers remorse is a real thing. We see that on the boards here. It can happen.

    I agree that she should apply ED to the one she prefers. But if it’s absolutely equal and she feels she’d be just as happy at one as the other, she’s optimizing chances of getting either by applying ED to Cornell and EA to VA.
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  • Genevieve18Genevieve18 167 replies2 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    See if it helps her to go through a mental exercise: if she got into either one ED, would she be disappointed to have missed a chance to apply to the other? If she realizes she'd be more disappointed about one school than the other, that might be her ED choice. Add to that: if she went to UVA ED and then didn't get into the business school, does she think she'd be very disappointed? How sure is she that she wants to major in business as an undergrad? Are there other majors that excite her?
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  • Musicmom2015Musicmom2015 330 replies23 threadsRegistered User Member
    Good advice. I will try that. She tends to be indecisive so she may end up not wanting to ED at all. But if she really can see herself at either I feel like it might be better to take and ED advantage to maximize the chance of getting one of them.

    Some people posted that this approach would then lead to ED Cornell and EA UVA. I was expecting people might say the opposite actually. Since Dyson changes are so slim that ED to UVA is her best bet to get one of them.

    She has some thinking to do and we don’t have to decide yet. Just gathering some insight for now.

    She has been saying business for a while but I think she is starting to realize she’s not completely sure. She sort of likes the idea of not applying to business right away so she has time to decide. But I also told her since it’s usually not hard to transfer out of business. She’s def not thinking engineering. Second choice would be Econ, political science, policy, pre-law type direction.
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  • LynnskiLynnski 245 replies12 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    My kid has a very hard time with decisions, and was clear that she wouldn't be applying ED anywhere. As a parent, it was tough to see her (theoretical) chances (theoretically) diminish, but given her own make-up, ED was itself not a good match.
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  • momofsenior1momofsenior1 7266 replies56 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Mine didn't apply ED anywhere. No rule that says you need to.
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  • OctagonOctagon 201 replies5 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    I think ED to UVA seems like a very good opportunity now that ED has come about.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 29422 replies58 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    If she can’t get into Dyson ED, not likely to happen. ED her best chance there. EA UVA is not as selective as Dyson though with new ED, it’s up in air. I do not know how Cornell currently does ED if student has a second choice school within the University. I know when my kid applied, he picked two schools, was rejected to his first choice Rolling Admissions and accepted to second choice RD much later. So it’ may be possible to apply to another Cornell school along with ED choice. Also with UVA and Dyson, it could be a deferral on either or one of the schools. So, she is getting these possibilities:

    1) accept Dyson, accept, defer, or rejected UVA ✅Dyson
    2) deferred Dyson, accept UVA Can wait for RD Dyson with UVA in pocket as safety school, or just go with UVA ✅
    3) rejected Dyson, accept UVA or can explore other options ✅
    4) deferred Dyson and UVA, or rejected at one and deferred at other, not much worse off than onset Time to look for other schools for RD. Maybe another Cornell school already in there
    5) rejected by both, ( I don’t know if Dyson rejects ED— some schools only defer ED applicants ) Still has other Cornell RD school in there but time to reassess list. Clearly, those two schools too selective even at close to optimal shot, so need less selective schools for RD

    I highly recommend, as Ibsaid before, to throw a safety EA or Rolling school in there. Scenarios 4 &5 can really demoralize.



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  • Genevieve18Genevieve18 167 replies2 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    edited June 22
    "Some people posted that this approach would then lead to ED Cornell and EA UVA. I was expecting people might say the opposite actually. Since Dyson changes are so slim that ED to UVA is her best bet to get one of them."

    Yes, that's what I was thinking, that ED to UVA would give her a stronger chance to get into one of them, since Dyson takes so few students.

    Maybe add to the thought experiment to imagine that she didn't ED to either because she couldn't decide between the two, and then hypothetically didn't get into either (but got into other schools that she had as likelies). Would she then regret not applying ED, or would she have regretted more applying to ED to one because it could have foreclosed the other?

    It can be hard to go through the hypotheticals of picturing yourself not getting into your favorites, but it could help to figure out which route she wants to go, ED or EA.
    edited June 22
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  • CT1417CT1417 4375 replies22 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Cornell eliminated the option to add a second college to the app.

    This line "Second choice would be Econ, political science, policy, pre-law type direction." makes me think that ILR could be a good fit, as the coursework aligns well. Has she attended an ILR info session? My info may be out of date, but they used to host these roundtable info sessions where the AdCom would ask each student why he was interested in ILR.

    Students in any college at Cornell are also allowed to pursue a business minor. (The Hotel school used to be the exception, but now that Hotel is under the Johnson School of Business, they no longer need to list it as an exception.)

    https://dyson.cornell.edu/programs/undergraduate/minors/university-wide-business/

    It is also possible to apply to transfer to Dyson, but no guarantees. Generally, Cornell makes it fairly easy to transfer between colleges, but the demand for Dyson is high, so the admission is not guaranteed. Someone may have Dyson admission stats. I recall reading that the first year class doubled by second year with transfers, approximately half external and half internal, but I read that years ago so it may be out of date.

    https://dyson.cornell.edu/programs/undergraduate/admissions/internal-transfer/

    I agree that applying to UVA the first year they are offering ED may be advantageous. Would she be happy with the other academic offerings at Virginia if she were not admitted to the Comm School?
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