right arrow
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Many schools have delayed their deadlines for enrollment due to COVID-19. Check out our exclusive directory of extended deadlines we know about right now.
STUDENT GUEST OF THE WEEK: Ethan is a burgeoning tech enthusiast who got accepted into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, Brown. This week he's answering your questions on how to best craft your application and narrow down your college search/decision process. ASK HIM ANYTHING!
Concerned about how to pay for college amid COVID-19 economic changes? Join us for a webinar on Thu, Apr. 9 at 5pm ET. REGISTER NOW and let us know what questions you have and want answered.

College Rankings for "Social Mobility"

CCEdit_TorreyCCEdit_Torrey 36 replies348 threads Editor
Find out which colleges ranked high in the "Social Mobility Index." https://www.collegeconfidential.com/articles/colleges-ranked-for-social-mobility/
16 replies
· Reply · Share

Replies to: College Rankings for "Social Mobility"

  • writingpumpkin03writingpumpkin03 158 replies6 threads Junior Member
    I'm confused as to why net cost isn't accounted for.
    · Reply · Share
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 81216 replies729 threads Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    http://www.socialmobilityindex.org/ explains why they use tuition rather than net tuition. You may or may not agree with the reason. Basically, they believe that high list price tuition discourages low-SES applicants from applying due to the relative opacity of financial aid and net price (even here on these forums, many posters have no idea that net price calculators exist to get preliminary estimates).

    Of course, some odd cases may not be accounted for well. For example, Webb Institute has high tuition, but every US citizen and permanent resident gets a full tuition scholarship, so the opacity of financial aid and net price is reduced (although there is still some relating to the rest of the cost of attendance).
    edited July 2019
    · Reply · Share
  • ASKMotherASKMother 233 replies1 threads Junior Member
    Interesting index to consider. Very concerned though regarding the low rate of graduation on many of these schools. Makes me wonder if this contributes to the greater statistic concerning the high amount of college loans not being paid off because (roughly calculated from a cursory glance) 40% of the students didn't finish college and therefore didn't obtain that $50K/year job. So are the colleges giving a hand up to those in need or incentivizing greater financial burdens for those already at a financial crossroad? ... just a thought.
    · Reply · Share
  • CU123CU123 3688 replies75 threads Senior Member
    What a tremendously flawed list, can you figure out why all of the schools at the top of the list are either in California or New York?
    · Reply · Share
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 81216 replies729 threads Senior Member
    The CSUs in California and CUNYs in NY do enroll a large percentage of students from low income backgrounds and have low in-state list prices, factors which move them up in this ranking.
    · Reply · Share
  • privatebankerprivatebanker 6428 replies127 threads Senior Member
    Does it measure going a backwards too?
    · Reply · Share
  • bluebayoubluebayou 27427 replies188 threads Senior Member
    I'm confused as to why net cost isn't accounted for.

    Agreed. Who cares what Boston College -- since it is called out -- charges for tuition as long as it is zero (BC meets full need) for those low income types that this SMI is purporting to target info?
    · Reply · Share
  • CU123CU123 3688 replies75 threads Senior Member
    Well this goes to my opinion that if you are low income that you should move to California for your best shot at going to college.
    · Reply · Share
  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk 2726 replies5 threads Senior Member
    edited July 2019
    "I am not familiar with CSUs, but I do know about NYC and the CUNYs and what kind of students attend them."

    CSUs may have a similar profile (communter, lower SES etc), but I don't think they have as many adult students as the CUNYs do, @ucbalumnus and @Gumbymom would probably know more about that. However without a doubt, public schools, esp is states like NY and CA will do a better job wrt economic mobility than privates, simply because its one of their goals, i.e. to improve wealth of their population via education, which is not the case with privates (fluffy mission statements aside). I grew up in NY and live in CA, they're probably the two best states wrt to higher edu when you also consider their community colleges.
    edited July 2019
    · Reply · Share
  • CU123CU123 3688 replies75 threads Senior Member
    While CA and NY do well nether ranks in the top 10 % for college grads.
    #1 DoC
    #2 Massachusetts
    #3 Colorado
    #4 Maryland
    #5 Conneticut

    #10 NY
    #15 CA
    · Reply · Share
  • TheodenTheoden 251 replies7 threads Junior Member
    @NYCgirl999 is right! The CUNY system, and to a lesser extent, the SUNY system, does a lot for social mobility. Very affordable tuition, and the rare distinction of frequently moving students from low income to middle or upper middle income.
    · Reply · Share
  • H MomH Mom 9 replies0 threads New Member
    I think what is important to note is that the "elite" liberal arts schools and universities that offer to pay full financial need in effect only offer a small percentage of students this opportunity, and the rest pay full tuition. Even the need-blind schools are low on this list because they are not truly need-blind as much as they claim they are. When you include your parents' jobs and address on an application, it's not hard to figure out where someone belongs on the socio-economic spectrum. The elite schools will never have good results on the upward social mobility index since a smaller percentage of their students actually come from disadvantaged backgrounds and the majority come from high-income families which skews their mobility numbers downward. The schools that rank well have more middle class and lower middle class families - which can't afford the elite schools or don't get in because they can't pay the tuition - the high achieving students who are given the chance to succeed at these schools gain upward mobility and create a more positive ranking. While schools are trying to achieve lower admissions rates and climb the ranks of the US News and world report, I think this index shows the important work that these lower ranking schools are doing in bettering the life of the bulk of American students.
    **And, to be fair, the New York and California schools are most likely skewed because they are offering opportunities for low income, high achieving residents, who end up making more by virtue of average salaries in these states. But, it's nice to see some private universities higher up on the list and we should be thankful for the work they are doing for those students who don't come from elite backgrounds.
    · Reply · Share
  • TheodenTheoden 251 replies7 threads Junior Member
    edited July 2019
    The fact that CUNY and UC schools are dominating the boards doesn't mean there aren't private Liberal Arts Colleges that are generous across the board and pretty committed to social mobility - they just won't see as many salient changes as the CUNY's will (1 and often 2 quintiles of income group movement or more) since they don't have as many students in the bottom two quintiles. The CUNYs have a higher percentage of kids in the lower quintiles.

    Unfortunately there is a paywall here, but if you type in a school you can see some detailed outcomes. Scroll down and see what the percentage chance a poor kid has of becoming rich (moving from bottom to top quintile), and the mobility index (chance of someone moving up 2 quintiles).

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/

    CUNY and UC are doing more for a larger number of kids than, let's say a school like Middlebury College. However, a poor kid at Middlebury has a better shot at becoming rich that a kid at CUNY, since they build social capital and make use of excellent alumni networks. That is, they are surrounded by kids who come from rich families. The point however, is so very few of the students at Middlebury are from the bottom quintiles. Those lucky few who go to a place like Middlebury will do very well. Overall social mobility is low at Middlebury, since most of the kids come from upper quintiles and they can't really go up.

    Places like the CTCL schools (Knox, Allegheny, Beloit, Ursinus) tend to have a broader distribution of students among the quintiles, since they are very generous. However, since they don't have too many kids in the top quintiles, or the top 1%, the social capital isn't as strong for the kids at the bottom.

    Of course pre-professional programs tend to skew things like engineering schools.
    edited July 2019
    · Reply · Share
  • TheodenTheoden 251 replies7 threads Junior Member
    edited July 2019
    I missed my final edit...here it is...

    The fact that CUNY and UC schools are dominating the boards doesn't mean there aren't private Liberal Arts Colleges that are generous across the board and pretty committed to social mobility - they just won't see as many salient changes as the CUNY's will (1 and often 2 quintiles of income group movement or more) since they don't have as many students in the bottom two quintiles. The CUNYs have a higher percentage of kids in the lower quintiles.

    Unfortunately there is a paywall here, but if you type in a school you can see some detailed outcomes. Scroll down and see what the percentage chance a poor kid has of becoming rich (moving from bottom to top quintile), and the mobility index (chance of someone moving up 2 quintiles).

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/

    CUNY and UC are doing more for a larger number of kids than, let's say a school like Middlebury College. However, a poor kid at Middlebury has a *slightly* better shot at becoming rich that a kid at CUNY/Baruch, since they build social capital and make use of excellent alumni networks. That is, they are surrounded by kids who come from rich families. The point however, is so very few of the students at Middlebury are from the bottom quintiles. Those lucky few who go to a place like Middlebury will do very well. Overall social mobility is low at Middlebury, since most of the kids come from upper quintiles and they can't really go up. What's interesting is that the chance of a poor kid becoming rich is still pretty high at a place like Baruch (only slightly lower than Middlebury). So Baruch is high on social mobility overall *and* high on a chance of a poor kid becoming rich.

    Places like the CTCL schools (Knox, Allegheny, Beloit, Ursinus) tend to have a broader distribution of students among the quintiles, since they are very generous and offer merit aid. However, since they don't have too many kids in the top quintiles, or the top 1%, the social capital isn't as strong for the kids at the bottom. So social mobility higher than a Middlebury and lower than a Baruch, since they are more broadly distributed than either. The chance of a poor kid becoming rich is lower, too, since they have less in the top 1% to prime the alumni networks.

    Of course pre-professional programs tend to skew things upward for median income like engineering and heavy STEM schools, and, of course, places that focus on business and finance. Artsy schools (heavy in Theater, Dance, Creative Writing) skew things in the opposite direction - even rich kids from these schools tend to make lower salaries.
    edited July 2019
    · Reply · Share
Sign In or Register to comment.