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PreLaw student interested in match schools

chanthorchanthor 11 replies1 threads New Member
We moved from NJ to SC the summer before DD21's junior year. Given our new geography and finances we are targeting schools in the southeast. We are a middle class family that don't expect to receive much financial aid. However, to make her top schools work we would have to chase merit. DD should auto qualify for some merit scholarships at Clemson, USC and CoCharleston, so we expect COA to be max of $20K/yr at these schools. We would like to keep parent contribution to no more that $20k/year at wherever school she does land. Her sweet spot is mid-sized (5k students), liberal arts or small research unis, in or near vibrant city with its own campus. She loved Georgetown, but that is not realistic given our finances and her stats. I would love to find a few match schools in the DC, Philadelphia or Boston metro area as DD would prefer to move back north. DD's current shortlist:

U of Richmond
Wake Forest (maybe, no visit yet)
Furman (Furman scholar + SC merit aid ~30K total)
U of So Carolina, prolly Capstone
College of Charleston, Honors College

29 ACT, first sitting with no prep
3.6 GPA/4.3 wGPA
mostly honors and APs (only allowed in jr/sr yr per school policy)

My DD is somewhat introverted, but can turn it on given the right circumstances. A very nurturing person (despite her RBF), liberal, agnostic, loves to debate and learn, kind of a stealth SJW (has strong political beliefs but is not combative), seeks meaningful connections with people. Her ideal schools are Georgetown, Tufts and Vanderbilt if money and reality were not obstacles. Loves the traditions, the urban location and easy access (but still has its own campus), rigor, spirit, socially active, small class size, and engaged student body. Open curriculum is desirable; women's colleges are not. Please suggest match schools.

mid-sized school, ~5000 student body is ideal
Strong poli sci, history, pre-law programs
Focus on Global Citizenship
Service-Learning opportunities
school spirit
easy access to city for cultural events, entertainment, internship opps
easy to get to, i.e. ~6 hour drive from Columbia, SC or close to a major airport
edited July 14
18 replies
Post edited by CCEdit_Suraj on
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Replies to: PreLaw student interested in match schools

  • bluebayoubluebayou 28086 replies210 threads Senior Member
    without a big hook, Georgetown, Vandy and Tufts aren't happening with those numbers, particularly the ACT score. EvenRichmond and Wake are reaches, and as such, assume no merit aid. For merit money, she'll have to lower her sights (i.e., rankings) quite a bit.

    The good news is that law schools only care about GPA+LSAT; undergrad college is not a factor.
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  • chanthorchanthor 11 replies1 threads New Member
    One of my biggest mistake in this college journey was visiting G'town with D21 near the end of freshman year. We were in the area anyway and she fell in love with it. As others have noted it is easy to fall in love with reach schools.

    She is self studying for Sept ACT this summer. FWIW, her practice tests show 28-30 in Math and 32-35 for the other sections. If she can improve her composite ACT to 32+ then she will def apply to Richmond (and maybe WF) as a reach.

    No hooks. She is an excellent varsity Lacrosse athlete, but I think we are too late for the recruiting game.
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  • Eeyore123Eeyore123 2089 replies25 threads Senior Member
    Even if she increases her ACT, URichmond is going to be a mega reach. She would have to get one of the 25 full tuition scholarships. The 3.6 GPA is going to make that happen.
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 28086 replies210 threads Senior Member
    chanthor wrote: »
    One of my biggest mistake in this college journey was visiting G'town with D21 near the end of freshman year. We were in the area anyway and she fell in love with it. As others have noted it is easy to fall in love with reach schools.

    She is self studying for Sept ACT this summer. FWIW, her practice tests show 28-30 in Math and 32-35 for the other sections. If she can improve her composite ACT to 32+ then she will def apply to Richmond (and maybe WF) as a reach.

    No hooks. She is an excellent varsity Lacrosse athlete, but I think we are too late for the recruiting game.

    A 32 won't be competitive for merit money at UR or WF; she'll need to be in their top quartile for numbers. Run their NPC to see if you might qualify any need-based aid and whether the school is even affordable for your family.

    The good news is that the math section is the easiest to increase with prep. (Hint: four math questions on trig, two of which are almost always right angles so the Pythagorean Thm will work.)

    Good luck.
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  • chanthorchanthor 11 replies1 threads New Member
    I have run the NPCs and realize that Richmond and WF won't work based on financials. Will likely still let her apply as her reach with the understanding that we won't be paying if EFC comes back as expected.

    That is why I am asking the CC community for matches that might work. I know it's a tough ask with "just" a 3.6 gpa and 29 ACT.
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  • 2plustrio2plustrio 400 replies7 threads Member
    St. Josephs? Stetson?
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  • Eeyore123Eeyore123 2089 replies25 threads Senior Member
    It is very difficult for anyone to match instate schools on price with merit alone. You are looking for full tuition scholarships since a half wouldn’t get you to your price point. For example, she would get around 18k from Marquette. That however gets you nowhere near your price point. You would likely have to double your price target to really start opening up additional options.
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  • chanthorchanthor 11 replies1 threads New Member
    @2plustrio,

    Stetson in Florida? Dis not enthused about staying in SC, moving further south is out of the question.

    St. Joe's is interesting. On the surface it looks like it could be a good fit. Is it at least on par with Clemson or USC in terms of academics? It's a Jesuit institution- is it very religious? D loves G'town but felt it didn't seem as if religion pervades every aspect of student life.
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  • 2plustrio2plustrio 400 replies7 threads Member
    edited July 8
    chanthor wrote: »
    @2plustrio,

    Stetson in Florida? Dis not enthused about staying in SC, moving further south is out of the question.

    St. Joe's is interesting. On the surface it looks like it could be a good fit. Is it at least on par with Clemson or USC in terms of academics? It's a Jesuit institution- is it very religious? D loves G'town but felt it didn't seem as if religion pervades every aspect of student life.

    I only said Stetson because I know they have a very good law school with interesting accelerated options as well.

    St. Joes is not ranked as highly in "top" categories as the other schools but I don't always put all my opinion of a school in what rank they are. Its all about individual fit. I think many lower ranked schools still give an amazing education.

    Jesuit teaching is more about service and seeing people as a whole. Cura personalis we like to say. I teach at a Jesuit and I'm not even baptized and follow no religion so no, I would not call them preachy at all. Service learning is incorporated in Jesuit colleges overall.
    edited July 8
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 28086 replies210 threads Senior Member
    2plustrio wrote: »
    chanthor wrote: »
    @2plustrio,

    Stetson in Florida? Dis not enthused about staying in SC, moving further south is out of the question.

    St. Joe's is interesting. On the surface it looks like it could be a good fit. Is it at least on par with Clemson or USC in terms of academics? It's a Jesuit institution- is it very religious? D loves G'town but felt it didn't seem as if religion pervades every aspect of student life.

    I only said Stetson because I know they have a very good law school with interesting accelerated options as well.

    Disagree. Stetson is a terrible law school. Only 65% bar passage rate. Only 70% job rate; in other words, 30% of grads are un- or under-employed after spending $200k. Only 12% of grads make enough to pay off their law school loans.

    The instate Florida publics are a much better bet.



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  • MidwestmomofboysMidwestmomofboys 4215 replies27 threads Senior Member
    Rhodes in Memphis? Not big enough to meet the preferred size, but is urban and gives merit, and from others have said to me, as we never visited, campus vibe overlaps with Vandy.
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  • 2plustrio2plustrio 400 replies7 threads Member
    bluebayou wrote: »
    2plustrio wrote: »
    chanthor wrote: »
    @2plustrio,

    Stetson in Florida? Dis not enthused about staying in SC, moving further south is out of the question.

    St. Joe's is interesting. On the surface it looks like it could be a good fit. Is it at least on par with Clemson or USC in terms of academics? It's a Jesuit institution- is it very religious? D loves G'town but felt it didn't seem as if religion pervades every aspect of student life.

    I only said Stetson because I know they have a very good law school with interesting accelerated options as well.

    Disagree. Stetson is a terrible law school. Only 65% bar passage rate. Only 70% job rate; in other words, 30% of grads are un- or under-employed after spending $200k. Only 12% of grads make enough to pay off their law school loans.

    The instate Florida publics are a much better bet.



    Had a friend of the family go there who raved about it and the options. Im in healthcare so see, word of mouth is all relative. :)
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  • Peruna1998Peruna1998 142 replies4 threads Junior Member
    I am a lawyer and have practiced for eighteen years. If your daughter is serious about law school, then she would be well-advised to consider keeping the cost of her undergraduate degree down. I will be paying for my law school education for another twelve years (I went to Georgetown Law...it's not in Georgetown, it's on Capitol Hill). Luckily, when I graduated, I was blessed with a low 2.25% interest rate (good luck ever finding that deal again). The point is that if she is carrying undergraduate debt and law school debt, it will SEVERELY limit her choices coming out of law school. The legal field is already suffering many issues with too many lawyers, shrinking fields of practice, etc., etc., ad nauseam. The best advice for her would be to find an inexpensive public university in South Carolina (your home state), attend it with a minimum cost, earn as high a GPA as possible, and knock out the LSAT. Luckily, USC is an excellent school (as is Clemson). She would be well served learning how to write and speak in college. Law is more about writing that it is ever portrayed in media. As for speaking, the ability to explain complicated ideas clearly and concisely is important, as important (but frequently overlooked) is developing (what is known in military circles) as a command presence. Clients respond better to an attorney when they have confidence in that attorney. Part of developing that client confidence is not only knowing the law, but exuding an aura of confidence in your ability (even if you have no clue what you are doing). Best of luck to your daughter.
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  • chanthorchanthor 11 replies1 threads New Member
    @Peruna1998 Thank you for your sage advice. High GPA and score well on LSATs, got it. I don't think we will find a better deal than one of our SC state publics in terms of quality education for the price.

    She is 17...who knows if she will still want to study law in 5 years. Regardless, your main points of being able to write, speak, and the command presence being important is spot on not just for law, but most fields.
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  • chanthorchanthor 11 replies1 threads New Member
    @Midwestmomofboys I need to research Rhodes some more. It 's a bit further from home than I would like, small student body, and the Memphis location gives me pause. Though I have heard good things about their academic programs and they may give merit to students they desire.

    Can someone who has visited Rhodes or who has a student there speak to its location in Memphis? Do students feel safe?
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  • brantlybrantly 4326 replies78 threads Senior Member
    College of Wooster (Ohio)
    Clark University (Massachusetts)
    Trinity College (Connecticut)
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  • Peruna1998Peruna1998 142 replies4 threads Junior Member
    Actually, I live in Memphis, and have for nearly 40 years. I know a just a little about Rhodes being a native Memphian. My kids will not be applying to Rhodes, nor did I when I was applying. In my opinion, it is overpriced for the quality of education that you get. I don't understand why it has become popular these days. Aside from some ties with St. Jude, it is not particularly strong in STEM. Its location in the city leaves a bit to be desired. It is not well-known for merit scholarships. I just don't get it.
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 25010 replies20 threads Senior Member
    Stetson law school is not on the same campus as the undergrad school.
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