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ED1 William and Mary rejection question

rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
Hello.... After Friday's acceptances/deferrals/rejections for ED1 at W&M (December 7, 2019) I am more encouraged than ever. But, I do want to go out and inquire from anyone over the past years about ED1 at W&M (which I will be applying next year). Here is the Question: Has anyone ever been rejected with a 4.0 unweighted GPA ED1 at William and Mary College? If so, could you please give me your particulars?. I would be interested even 5 year ago since it would still really apply. Again, after Friday I just don't see this happening either instate or OSS. If you look at the Cappex graph (which is student self reporting) many many 4.0 students accepted the offer to attend but never do attended. If you look further, there are rejections of 4.0 students but will really really low SAT scores (like 1000). I just took the SAT test yesterday and feel pretty sure I will be at about 1330 (minimum). To me, the 1330 is enough. My thoughts here are that I would be better off maintaining the 4.0 than trying to increase the 1330. But, again, this would depend on my question here. All the information I am seeing is that GPA is much more important than SAT but you do need to have a "reasonable" SAT. 1330 is actually the top 7% in the country so it's not too bad. So, again, please let me know if you are anyone you know was rejected with a 4.0. ED1 at W&M. This will help me to decide which way i should go: Keep the GPA or increase the SAT. My school is very rigorous so I don't think I can do both. Thank you in advance.
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Replies to: ED1 William and Mary rejection question

  • milgymfammilgymfam 1091 replies16 threads Senior Member
    Of course you can do both.
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    Diving Deeper... I am seeing responses from a few very high SAT scores get deferred 2024 ED1 W&M (with great GPAs - 3.6 and 3.7) but have not yet seen any 4.0's get deferred. This is my point... GPA looks to be much more important than SAT... See the aforementioned CAPPEX graph. Thanks again for any responses.


    https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/w6wNDjDTGs0Ugl81hYgsz6BFFqA=/1018x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/williamandmarygpasatact-5c44c2634cedfd00014a8c2b.jpg
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    Thanks for the response milgymfam... Maybe I can take the August SAT again which will allow me to study during the summer but no way can I take the March/May/June SAT and still keep my 4.0.... I just got my grades for the first Trimester and I did well and kept my 4.0. However, I would definitely be jeopardizing my GPA by taking the test before finals. But, I really do think I am in good shape if I keep my 4.0. Do you know of anyone who was rejected ED1 at W&M with a 4.0? Again, I am sure there has been but there has to be a hole in their application... (like a 1000 on the SAT).... Thanks again for the response..
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3049 replies55 threads Senior Member
    edited December 2019
    There are 4.0 students rejected every year at W&M. Admissions evaluations are holistic, meaning many factors impact the ultimate decision.....GPA, rigor, number of core courses, test scores, teacher recs, essays, ECs, OOS/In-state, gender, hooks (URM, first gen, recruited athlete, donor), etc.

    I would not use secondary sources to target your apps or categorize your schools....the data is generally outdated (as it is at the link you provided above) and can even be just plain wrong. Does your school have Naviance?

    If your SAT score ends up being 1330 you should work to increase that.....for 2019/20 W&M matriculants had an SAT 25-75% range of 1320 - 1510. https://www.wm.edu/offices/ir/cds/index.php

    Admitted student test ranges are typically higher than the matriculated range....the median admitted student SAT was 1470 (class of 2023). https://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2019/class-of-2023-admitted-students-to-visit-campus-saturday.php

    Not sure your state of residency, but test score averages for OOS will be higher than the overall average as well.....overall the hurdle is higher for OOS students.

    Men also have a significantly higher acceptance rate than women (43% to 34% class of 2023).


    edited December 2019
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    Thank you for the response Mwfan1921. Good information here... I appreciate it. But I am interested in your thoughts on my dilemma. Do I sacrifice the 4.0 for the 1330? If you look on this site, you will see people who actually were accepted/deferred currently where a few high SAT (1540 which is phenomenal) were deferred with a 3.7 GPA. Again, I am looking and will wait for anyone at any time who had a 4.0 and who was rejected in ED1. I do understand about the holistic consideration but I am not worried about that since I have a very good ECs/Teacher Recommendations and I write very good (So my instructors tell me). But, again, I am somewhat certain my GPA goes down this year if I don't stay focused on my studies since the rigor of my school is very high. As an example: Many schools have regular classes with honors and AP as higher classes. Not my school. It's all honors and AP or you have to leave. Nothing else. Very tough school. So, you mention you know of 4.0s who have been refused by W&M. Could you tell me what was their SAT/ACT scores for these specific individuals? Also, you don't mention if they were deferred/rejected from ED1. Taking a step back, that does matter because I would think that most who have these high credentials won't commit to ED1 because they could get into an IVY. By applying ED1, you have to go or you will be blacklisted from any other school. To be 100% honest: If I were at 1500 SAT with my 4.0 from my school I would be applying to Harvard/Yale/Princeton myself and would not be committing to ED1 at W&I. At the very most, I would try for ED2 or RD if Ivy didn't work out.
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3049 replies55 threads Senior Member
    edited December 2019
    Do I sacrifice the 4.0 for the 1330?

    You don't even have the 1330 yet, wait until you get your score.

    Once you have your test score, it will help you categorize whether W&M is a reach or a match. It will not be a safety, even if you score a 1600. Many W&M applicants have stellar GPAs with high rigor, high test scores, great ECs, etc. etc. Are you in-state or OOS?
    I do understand about the holistic consideration but I am not worried about that since I have a very good ECs/Teacher Recommendations and I write very good (So my instructors tell me).

    Colleges build a class according to their needs and desires. You have to demonstrate that you are a fit for them. And not to be overly harsh, but in the spirit of being helpful.....your posts are difficult to read and one writes well, not 'good'.
    So, you mention you know of 4.0s who have been refused by W&M. Also, you don't mention if they were deferred/rejected from ED1. Taking a step back, that does matter because I would think that most who have these high credentials won't commit to ED1 because they could get into an IVY.

    You have a lot to learn about the college admissions process (which is normal for a HS junior!). Do you have a GC at school that is going to be helping you? I don't have any W&M applicant specifics, but every year thousands of 4.0 students are not accepted to W&M, Ivy League schools, etc.
    By applying ED1, you have to go or you will be blacklisted from any other school.

    This is not true.

    Have you run William and Mary's net price calculator to determine if it will be affordable? Note it may not be accurate if your parents are divorced, own their own business and/or have significant real estate assets. https://npc.collegeboard.org/app/wm
    edited December 2019
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  • prodesseprodesse 1357 replies71 threads Senior Member
    I recommend you retake the SAT at the end of the summer. Also, I heartily recommend that you have several "safety schools" that you can get excited about. I know people always ask, "What's your dream school?" but don't buy into that. There are quite a few schools out there that would be great for you.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 35138 replies398 threads Senior Member
    edited December 2019
    " been rejected with a 4.0 unweighted GPA ED1 at William and Mary" As said, of course. This is not one of those colleges that just looks for top gpa and picks top down. If you're doing the right research, you should know this.

    If the mid range is 1320-1510, you need just under 1510 or better. No way a 1330 is any lock or the gpa so special that they will like that score. The competition is tough. Plenty enough kids with all stats in the right place. And a combo of remarkable ECs, in and out of the hs box. Not just relying on titles.

    Do you sacrifice the gpa? Kind of an odd question, in that there's a standard answer on CC: you need top numbers in both. That's one way they know your gpa is neither a fluke nor based on some of the less demanding hs classes.

    On top of that, it is NOT the total that matters, it's the individual scores. Eg, a 1330 made up of an 800 and 530 won't get you far. Count on each score needing to be closer to 730 up. The one related to your possible major needs to be strong.

    Holistic is much more than, "good ECs/Teacher Recommendations and I write very (sic) good." It's matching yourself to what they value and look for. Great ECs in your one high school may not cut it. This is the college leap.

    You're wrong to ask about admits with top gpa and how low their scores were. That's a small part of this. If you're even thinking this is the way to analyze, you're off. If you think a 4.0/1500 is what makes HYP feasible, you're way off.

    Lots of high schools have an all honors-plus format. You're isolating your one experience and missing the fact tons of kids from top hs, with top stats, rigor...and a better understanding of what matters to these admissions depts...are also applying.

    If you're in VA, think Thomas Jefferson. You think a 1330 would get one of them into W&M? When there are so many others, from that hs and everywhere else, who do have the right numbers?

    Stop. Go read everything you can from W&M and other targets, get past the ordinary platitudes and numbers, find out what it is to be a match. Don't assume.


    Adding, your AP scores and SAT2 will also matter.
    edited December 2019
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    First, thanks for taking the time to address my questions.... I really do appreciate it... True, I do not know about the 1330 as of yet but probably 90% sure.... If you are correct, then I am probably going to look elsewhere for another school. But, I am just looking at the numbers for now. I was on the verge of forgetting about W&M completely but have changed my mind with the results from last Friday. For now, I am purposely testing the waters... Was I going to see any response where a "reasonable" 4.0 was deferred under ED1? Was I going to see a lower GPA but higher SAT being deferred? So far I am seeing no 4.0 being deferred but lower GPA with higher SAT being deferred under ED1. While this is anecdotal, they are nonetheless actual results that I received from students who were just involved with ED1 at W&M This is pretty good evidence. If you are correct and 1330 puts me out with a 4.0 then I should see something to that effect. Again, there are no guarantees for anything but this just gives me a sense about what strategy I should use in getting into the best school that I can. Before Friday, I truly thought I was wasting my time. But now I am going to continue to ask and see if I can find anyone in ED1 who was rejected with a 4.0. If not, then I think I have a very good shot but, again, no guarantees.... Thanks again for your time.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 35138 replies398 threads Senior Member
    Just looking at CC or similar sites tells you nothing about the whole picture that matters. You don't see how those kids self present, including what they write about. (Not just the big essay, but any supp questions.)

    Fine to look at stats, but the specificity of your questions is worrisome. The clue is not in what some kids show on CC, who got deferred or accepted. We're pressing our POV because this really is about the sum total of your package. You have zero idea what those kids submitted, in toto, whether it even made sense to those adcoms at that college.

    Whenever there's high competition, any stumble can do you in. What would workk better, after you dig in more, is to ask yourself, "They would want *me* because...?" That's never as simple as, "I have a 4.0." Nor that some other kids had a 4.0 and low scores and got deferred or admitted.

    It's kinda like asking, how many wore a green suit to an interview and got the job? You may find it interesting, but it's not the sole focal point to explore.

    And some of those Early successes may be recruited athletes, who can sometimes slide on stats.
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    Thanks again to all for the feedback... Very much appreciated... Looking forward... This is the problem... You stated that you need tops in both GPA/SAT. However, I would challenge you to ask the ED1 students who just got in. I am seeing two quick examples: 3.69 GPA with 1360. Another: 4.2 weighted (Not sure what the unweighted is but probably 3.7 or so) with a 29 ACT. And there are numerous like this in ED1 who were accepted. These are actual people who applied and were accepted. You see... I was listening and reading the same info and was ready to walk away. However, now I am seeing facts that say otherwise. Sure, I understand the other factors go into the final decision but I am just going by the numbers which say I am highly competitive with the 4.0 and the 1330. Thanks again to everyone for the feedback...... Keep it coming... Appreciate it....
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  • itsgettingreal17itsgettingreal17 4110 replies28 threads Senior Member
    @rvgros22 Have you taken a statistics class yet? It seems not since knowledgeable posters are trying to help you but you refuse to listen, instead stuck on the few examples you’ve seen on the internet, which is not statistically significant. Ignore advice and rely on your own flawed research at your own peril. This type of thinking will cause you to struggle at rigorous schools like W&M.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 35138 replies398 threads Senior Member
    edited December 2019
    Don't challenge me, lol. You have no idea WHAT drew them to a 3.69/1360. This is NOT a numbers-only game. And do you know who these "actual people"are?

    Are any of them recruited athletes? Or tell us what proportion are? Not just a few you see. (Do you know how that affects Early decisions, throws off the numbers?)

    A 1330 is points away from the bottom quartile. You must understand what that means. Or just picking other targets won't give you the understanding, to rate yourself.

    Your choice.
    When applying to colleges that value one's level of thinking, try to have that. Not go hunting for shortcuts.
    edited December 2019
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    Agree that 1330 is low but 4.0/4.56 is on the high end for GPA which brings me right back to my original question. Sacrifice GPA?. Folks...I am just a 16 year old guy trying to find his way. Take a deep breath.
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 3049 replies55 threads Senior Member
    edited December 2019
    rvgros22 wrote: »
    Agree that 1330 is low but 4.0/4.56 is on the high end for GPA which brings me right back to my original question. Sacrifice GPA?. Folks...I am just a 16 year old guy trying to find his way. Take a deep breath.

    What posters are telling you is that you need a good GPA in a rigorous curriculum, good test scores, and an entire application that shows W&M how well you fit their school.

    Looking at CC or Reddit for profiles of accepted students (which may or not even be accurate) is *not* how one should research colleges, their potential fit, and categorization, among other things.

    If you can't study for the SAT during school without 'sacrificing' your GPA, then take it in the summer. Right now this is all hypothetical because you don't even have one test score yet.

    Are you in or out of state for W&M?
    edited December 2019
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 35138 replies398 threads Senior Member
    edited December 2019
    Thousands of your competition will have a 4.0 unweighted.
    Weighted does not matter, as most hs do it differently.

    You should not need to sacrifice gpa for better scores. For highly competitive colleges, it should come easy, the better applicants can, sorry, do it all. That's their skill level and a lust. I think you'd be surprised just how much the exciting candidates DO fit into their schedules, including out of school, the sort of drives they go after. And they have lives and friends.

    And that raises, if you work so intently for that 4.0, is a highly competitive college the right milieu? They expect more than studies.

    16? Do this the right way. Or you risk spinning your wheels. No need to choose colleges now. Certainly not with a faulty concept giving false assurances, without more info. That's not the level of thinking these colleges look for.

    Remember there's a big difference between causation and correlation.

    Founding a club and getting hosp vol work at 16 are not a tip. Tons of kids have that and more.

    The end.
    edited December 2019
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  • rvgros22rvgros22 35 replies2 threads Junior Member
    We will have to agree to disagree. Finding and directing a medical club in a high schopl plus working in a hospital in the ER at 16 are real good accomplishments. Thanks for your time.
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  • novamamannovamaman 21 replies2 threads Junior Member
    I do understand the reason for your post. I looked at results threads from past years and was encouraged from people sharing stats.

    But...I would say not to pick W&M because you realize that you can “get in” with your stats. I would say pick it because you think it’s the school for you and you fall in love with it. Then, do your best for the rest of your Junior year and try the SAT again in August. Grades are always more important than a Saturday morning test, but the test score can also give you an edge over others with equally impressive grades.

    Good luck in you college research and the test of your year!
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  • barb4567barb4567 5 replies2 threads New Member
    Just this past Friday I was rejected from my dream school (William and Mary) with a 4.0 GPA! I put everything I had into the application and spent hours pouring my heart and soul into it. Of course, there is nothing I can do to change the decision however I can tell you what I learned from the experience. The whole numbers game you are playing is important, but make sure you are focusing on yourself in the meantime. There is nothing anybody can say to make you feel 100% confident about your application or your stats so just try your best on everything during the next year and see where you land. For me, I did not land at W and M but I know that my future is not determined by this one decision. Good luck and BE CONFIDENT
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