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Is Columbia the Greatest Challenger to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT?

EliteCulture331EliteCulture331 55 replies6 threads Junior Member
edited October 2018 in Columbia University
It seems that Columbia has some unique advantages over schools like Penn and UChicago, but also in comparison to Harvard, Yale, etc. Any thoughts?
edited October 2018
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Replies to: Is Columbia the Greatest Challenger to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford and MIT?

  • TiggerDadTiggerDad 2041 replies73 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    I think of Columbia as "peers" rather than "the greatest challenger" to HYPSM. I also think of UChicago as their peers, as well. These are all great institutions of higher learning and that's the way I think of them as opposed to some sort of ranking order.
    edited October 2018
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  • PublisherPublisher 9069 replies110 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    @EliteCulture331: What are the "unique advantages" held by Columbia over Penn, Chicago, Harvard, Yale, etc. ?


    Thank you in advance !
    edited October 2018
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27015 replies175 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    My thoughts: the only unique advantage that I see is Manhattan. (I also see the Core curriculum as somewhat unique, at least to the Ivies, but then I'm a dinosaur that actually believes in a Core. Note, that Chicago has a Core.)

    Barnard is also unique, but I assume that is not what you mean OP.
    edited October 2018
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  • TiggerDadTiggerDad 2041 replies73 threads Senior Member
    Another unique advantage is their joint degree program with Juilliard, similar to Harvard/NEC. A good friend of violinist son is currently participating in this joint program.
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  • EliteCulture331EliteCulture331 55 replies6 threads Junior Member
    @bluebayou Far more than just Manhattan. Columbia is ranked 3rd in the United States behind only Princeton and Harvard as well as 8th globally ahead of Princeton and Yale. Columbia has exclusive partnerships in Data Science and blockchain with IBM and is recognized as the nation's leader in financial engineering and data science. Perhaps, "advantages" wasn't the right word, "well positioned" is probably more accurate.
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27015 replies175 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    so your definition is 'well positioned in financial engineering and data science'? Are you more focused on grad or undergrad?

    Isn't Columbia's venture with IBM brand new? (How can it then be a national leader, unless it's the only one out there?)

    (just trying to understand the context of your OP?)
    Columbia is ranked 3rd in the United States behind only Princeton and Harvard

    Isn't this answering your own question?
    edited October 2018
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  • merc81merc81 10807 replies173 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    Columbia can lay claim to offering the ultimate urban experience among otherwise comparable universities. For this reason alone, it could represent an unquestionable first-choice school for students who seek this type of setting.

    However, with respect to undergraduate education, the true alternatives to all the schools mentioned would seem to be purely undergraduate-focused colleges such as those among the NESCACs and Claremonts.
    edited October 2018
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  • EliteCulture331EliteCulture331 55 replies6 threads Junior Member
    edited October 2018
    @bluebayou IBM chose to partner with Columbia because of Columbia's Data Science Institute and Financial Engineering program. Both are regularly ranked number 1. Yes, the IBM Blockchain center is new, hence why I think "well positioned" is more appropriate a term.

    @skieurope Don't you think your use of the term HYPSM sort of contradicts your initial claim "Like it makes any difference". HYPSM is a term which identifies what are purportedly the best schools in the nation: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT by a single initial. How can there be no difference between HYPSM and Columbia if Columbia is excluded from the acronym?
    edited October 2018
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  • skieuropeskieurope 40111 replies7416 threads Super Moderator
    edited October 2018
    @skieurope Don't you think your use of the term HYPSM sort of contradicts your initial claim
    No. You chose to mention those 5 schools. In response to your original post, instead of typing out all the name of the 5 (and only 5) universities that you yourself included in the thread header, I simply used the abbreviation that is commonly used to refer to them.
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/HYPSM
    edited October 2018
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  • PublisherPublisher 9069 replies110 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    At least one Big 4 accounting firm has partnered with nine universities for data analysis/data sciences masters degree. Not sure how unique Columbia's joint venture is currently & in the very near future.
    edited October 2018
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  • EliteCulture331EliteCulture331 55 replies6 threads Junior Member
    edited October 2018
    @Publisher It's not a degree program. It's an entirely new Center for Blockchain Research led by IBM and Columbia researchers. If you weren't aware IBM is the clear leader in Blockchain technology. IBM chose to work with Columbia because of their strengths in related fields.

    Students and researchers will be given the opportunity to incubate blockchain start-ups and help define policy for blockchain technology.
    edited October 2018
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  • PublisherPublisher 9069 replies110 threads Senior Member
    Thank you. My point is that new joint venture type co-ops & programs are rapidly being offered by different affiliations in many fields.
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  • CenterCenter 2204 replies66 threads Senior Member
    OP-you ask for thoughts and then argue. If you think it is so then end of discussion. My thoughts-not remotely. Too many limitations-- and each school, when you drill down probably have some unique specialties an strengths regardless of ranking .
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  • EliteCulture331EliteCulture331 55 replies6 threads Junior Member
    @Center I'm not arguing. I was asked to clarify the unique advantages of the IBM partnership. I'm not barred from commenting on my own discussion.
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27015 replies175 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    OP:

    small nit, but this year's jump to #3 by Columbia in USNews appears to be slieght of hand. Per the Columbia Spectator, USnews gave Columbia credit for the success all the Pell Grantees in the College of General Studies. Yet, USNews did not use the admit stats of GS in their ranking criteria, and instead just reported Columbia College's admission rate of 6%. Including GS's admission rate would have raised the University's overall number and thus, hurt rankings' points. (Not sure its fair to include some of GS's numbers in the ranking, but exclude others.)

    Note: I no longer subscribe to USNews, so cannot verify if the Spectator is correct.

    edited October 2018
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  • TiggerDadTiggerDad 2041 replies73 threads Senior Member
    Ranking has no relevance to the OP's "unique advantages" of Columbia, so I hope this thread doesn't digress into ranking discussions.
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  • EliteCulture331EliteCulture331 55 replies6 threads Junior Member
    edited October 2018
    @bluebayou US News removed acceptance rate from its ranking methodology this year. Columbia has the 3rd lowest acceptance rate in the United States (5.5%) after Stanford and Harvard. If you were to take Columbia College's acceptance rate in isolation (excluding SEAS) it would be closer to 4%.

    So if anything, this year's methodology works against Columbia. GS isn't factored into Columbia's US News score because GS students make a tiny percentage of the student body, don't participate in the Columbia College Core Curriculum, aren't allowed to live in Columbia College/SEAS dorms, register for courses after all other constituent schools and thus hold similar privileges to Harvard Extension School students. Your argument about Pell Grantees could easily be made against Harvard for its Harvard Extension students. I can only imagine what Harvard's acceptance rate would be if you included Harvard Extension School students.

    Calling Columbia's jump to #3 a sleight of hand is really misguided in my opinion. Columbia has been ranked Top 5 for the past decade now and for the most part ahead of both Stanford and UChicago. It has essentially served as the solid #4 school in the nation.
    edited October 2018
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  • skieuropeskieurope 40111 replies7416 threads Super Moderator
    edited October 2018
    I'm not barred from commenting on my own discussion.
    But you are not allowed to turn it into a debate, which holds true for everyone.
    edited October 2018
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27015 replies175 threads Senior Member
    edited October 2018
    GS isn't factored into Columbia's US News score because GS students make a tiny percentage of the student body...

    Per wikipedia, GS comprises "almost 30%" of the Columbia undergrads, which is a lot more than 'tiny' IMO. GS does have its own Core which, for whatever reason, is separate from Columbia College's Core (although most other classes are open to all).
    Your argument about Pell Grantees could easily be made against Harvard for its Harvard Extension students.

    It's not my argument; again, I was referencing the Columbia Spectator which said the Uni got a ranking's boost from the success of the Pell Grantees in the College of GS. (USNews added a social mobility component this year.) As the local paper at a University with one of the top Journalism programs in the country, I assume that they are correct.

    And perhaps Harvard (and Penn) could probably do the same, but they don't (apparently). But of course, the Harvard extension program is mostly a night deal, and generally part-time, as are many/most? other colleges' non-trad programs. As a day-program mostly integrated into the rest of Columbia's undergrad academics, GS is therefor on the unique side. (~70% of GS are full time students)
    edited October 2018
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