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Statistics for Black Ivy League applicants?

Mexifornia951Mexifornia951 0 replies2 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2 New Member
edited December 2013 in Cornell University
What are the GPA/SAT scores for black students that get accepted to schools like Yale, Columbia, and U Penn.

Would an applicant with a 3.42 GPA /1920 SAT, strong essays, few extracurriculars, work/internship/entrepreneurial experience, bilingual (fluent English/ proficient Spanish) have a fair chance of getting in?

BTW I'm expecting to break 2000 when I retake the SAT this December.

AP Courses / AP Score:
sophmore-
AP Chem / 5
junior-
AP Calc AB / 5
AP Psych / 4
AP English Language / 4
AP US History / 3
AP Spanish V
senior-
AP Macro/Micro Econ
AP English Lit
AP Spanish VI
AP Statistics
edited December 2013
23 replies
Post edited by Mexifornia951 on
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Replies to: Statistics for Black Ivy League applicants?

  • wimmiettwimmiett 346 replies21 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 367 Member
    why are you asking this on the cornell thread
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  • satman1111satman1111 943 replies48 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 991 Member
    no, there are so many URM people applying to ivies that can compete fairly with other applicants, that URM doesn't play as big a role anymore
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  • HarrovianHarrovian 546 replies9 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 555 Member
    there is not as big of a bump as you think, generally speaking. the URM bump is progressively getting smaller and smaller, due to sheer number of URM applicants.
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  • RandomPigeonRandomPigeon 130 replies19 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 149 Junior Member
    For what it's worth, I am a black male who was rejected RD from Cornell with a 2140 and a 3.8
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  • 2Daswell2Daswell 243 replies4 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 247 Junior Member
    "URM doesn't play as big a role anymore"

    Maybe it is because black international applicants are with much stronger stats. (I read it somewhere but I couldn't find the source now) While universities can take black international students to satisfy Affirmative Action without sacrificing test scores, they tend to start to bring in more of this type of students.
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  • alanhoustonalanhouston 67 replies0 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 67 Junior Member
    Cornell looks for students who bring something to Cornell and who are likely to make an impact on society after graduation.

    An SAT score of 2200 tells Cornell that someone has a 95% of graduating. An 1800 SAT score tells Cornell that someone has a 90% chance of graduating.

    What the SAT fails to predict is which student will change the world? What was Nelson Mandela's SAT score?

    Strong candidates present evidence they will make an impact on Cornell and an impact on their profession and community.
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  • alanhoustonalanhouston 67 replies0 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 67 Junior Member
    Ivy League colleges enroll Black students with SAT scores in the 1800 to 2400 range. They also enroll Anglo, Hispanic, and Asian students in the 1800 to 2400 range.

    Bill Bradley was admitted to Princeton with a 950 SAT. Bradley was also an All American basketball player. He graduated with honors and won a Rhodes scholarship to Oxford. He went on to become a U.S. Senator.

    The SAT measures how much time and effort someone puts in to be clever at mutiple choice games. It has been proven to be useless in predicting much else.
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  • texaspgtexaspg 16481 replies340 discussionsForum Champion Pre-Med & Medical Posts: 16,821 Forum Champion
    "Maybe it is because black international applicants are with much stronger stats. "

    International applicants are not given an URM status. They are being added for diversity and to be able to have as many countries represented as possible at a given school.
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  • T26E4T26E4 23243 replies1031 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 24,274 Senior Member
    ^Correct. African Americans don't lose seats because there are more or better African international applicants.
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  • 2Daswell2Daswell 243 replies4 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 247 Junior Member
    http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000530.pdf

    In section B2 there are

    Nonresident aliens
    Black or African American, non-Hispanic
    White
    Asian ...

    Those who are residents by immigration do not fit in the 'Nonresident aliens' group. They can be in any other ethnics.

    The blacks among these are not American-born African Americans whom AA tried to help; but they are residents so they can check the race box they fit (Black). These are basically naturalized internationals with higher test scores among blacks. So are the (international) second generation African Americans.
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  • ForeverFishForeverFish 281 replies17 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 298 Junior Member
    I have an African-American friend with a 2300+ SAT who was accepted to Harvard.

    I have an Asian-American friend with a 2300+ SAT who was accepted to Stanford.

    I have an Asian-American friend with a 2300+ SAT who was deferred from MIT.

    I have an Indian-American friend with a 2300+ SAT who was rejected from Stanford.

    Last year, my half-Spanish friend with a 2200+ SAT was rejected from Rice, but accepted to Stanford and Brown.

    A few years ago, the valedictorian of my school -- an Asian-American girl -- was rejected from every top-tier school she applied to. She ended up going to UT-Austin, where she was auto-admit. The next year another student, who's white and a great athlete (not recruited), was similarly rejected from all of the Ivies within a matter of a few days. He also went to UT-Austin, his safety school.

    (See a trend? Me neither.)

    I don't think race/ethnicity plays as big of a role as some people might assume, especially as the number of extremely qualified URMs increases with each passing year. Certainly universities have racial and geographical quotas, but what's more important is that you demonstrate enthusiasm and an ability to positively contribute to the school.
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  • alanhoustonalanhouston 67 replies0 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 67 Junior Member
    The College Board's own research shows that college students with a 1550 have a 65% chance of a B average freshman year. Students with an 1800 have a 90% chance, a 2000 a 90%+ chance, a 2200 a 90%+ chance, a 2400 a 90%+ chance.

    The SAT, by itself, can not explain why many 1800 SAT students outperform most 2400 SAT students. The SAT cannot explain why some 2400 students fail to ever graduate from college.

    What did FDR, JFK, Al Gore, Bill Bradley, John Kerry and George Bush have in common? Average or below average SAT scores. Ivy League degrees. U.S. Senators and Presidents.

    A 2400 SAT predicts great success in taking multiple choice tests. The College Board has no data showing it makes someone a more successful teacher, nurse, artist, doctor, lawyer.

    Sadly, for a lot of 2400 types, it will be the peak moment of their life...something to brag about while they fetch coffee for their boss...the charming 1600 guy.
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  • alanhoustonalanhouston 67 replies0 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 67 Junior Member
    So, how do colleges solve the SAT problem? Most 2400 SAT students do well in college. Some flunk out.

    People with average SAT scores? Half never graduste from college. Many graduate with honors. Bill Bradley, BELOW average SAT, graduated with Honors ftom Princeton and is among the tiny number of Princeton grads to win a Rhodes scholarship to Oxford.

    Bill Bradley's outstanding record at Princeton was thr result of who he was: he had a relentless drive to be the best at any task he took on. He was well-organized. He was an expert time manager who was studying every minute on the bus to a game.
    He also was a leader, at Princeton, at Oxford, and in the U.S. Senate.

    So, how do colleges find people like Nelson Mandela, John Kerry, FDR, John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Al Gore and Bill Bradley? People who become leaders and who change the world. Look for drive, character, ambition, passion, leadership. Multiple choice tests? Not much help.

    Harvard knows that some applicants with an 1800 SAT have the character traits that ensure that they will br a success at Harvard and make an impact on the world.

    And Harvard also knows that many 2400 SAT applicants will be that 50 year old fraud investigator at an insurance company who manages to work his 33 year old SAT score into a random conversation at least once a week.
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  • texaspgtexaspg 16481 replies340 discussionsForum Champion Pre-Med & Medical Posts: 16,821 Forum Champion
    "What did FDR, JFK, Al Gore, Bill Bradley, John Kerry and George Bush have in common? Average or below average SAT scores. Ivy League degrees. U.S. Senators and Presidents."

    FDR was too long before my time. Bradley went to Princeton for basketball. Gore, Kerrey, JFK and Bush got in because of money and political pedigree. Not sure any of them would have made it far without those.
    "Sadly, for a lot of 2400 types, it will be the peak moment of their life...something to brag about while they fetch coffee for their boss...the charming 1600 guy. "

    "Harvard knows that some applicants with an 1800 SAT have the character traits that ensure that they will br a success at Harvard and make an impact on the world.

    And Harvard also knows that many 2400 SAT applicants will be that 50 year old fraud investigator at an insurance company who manages to work his 33 year old SAT score into a random conversation at least once a week. "

    These statements, for the lack of a better word, are silly. There are about 500 2400 scorers each year along with another 500 36 scorers. A reasonable number end up in top schools in this nation and go on to do whatever they like in their life. I would be shocked if any are fetching coffee after leaving colleges or doing fraud investigation and working their scores into some imagined inane conversations. I know a few who have moved onto top business/law and medical schools already. Since 2400 scores started only in 2005, I would assume there is a group of about 5000 people at the most floating around in the nation.
    A few years ago, the valedictorian of my school -- an Asian-American girl -- was rejected from every top-tier school she applied to. She ended up going to UT-Austin, where she was auto-admit.

    Three years ago, one local high school had 4 perfect ACT scorers and one perfect SAT scorer. 2 are attending UT Austin despite being admitted to some top schools because they like specific programs at UT.
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  • ForeverFishForeverFish 281 replies17 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 298 Junior Member
    I know people with phenomenal stats who are only applying to UT-Austin because it's their first choice. There's nothing wrong with that. Their engineering and business programs are top-notch.

    I think you missed the point of that anecdote -- that a great SAT score and great numbers (which our valedictorian had) are not everything to a college. She wanted to attend an Ivy, but was rejected from all of them, despite having the numbers

    Lower scorers on the SAT and ACT can go on to be extremely successful. The converse is also true. What the SAT does not measure is interpersonal skills, artistic talent, business acumen, etc. Even IQ simply quantifies your CAPACITY to learn, and it more often than not fluctuates across your lifetime.
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  • texaspgtexaspg 16481 replies340 discussionsForum Champion Pre-Med & Medical Posts: 16,821 Forum Champion
    "I think you missed the point of that anecdote"

    No I did not miss the point. I am pointing out that UT Austin is a great school in its own right, despite being your Val's second or fifteenth choice. Many high achievers CHOOSE to go there.

    Two years ago someone from our local high school went there, ignoring a Harvard admission.
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  • ForeverFishForeverFish 281 replies17 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 298 Junior Member
    I agree. I have never said that UT-Austin isn't a good school. Like I mentioned, its business and engineering programs are among the best in the nation. The city is a wonderful cultural center, full of live entertainment and quirky events. I personally know people with fantastic stats who are also choosing to attend, forgoing all other options, and I have no doubt that they will love it there.

    On the other hand, UT-Austin being a Texan student's backup school should not be surprising, nor cause for imagined slights against its quality of education. It has automatic admission for the top 7% of the Class of 2014, so naturally, many top-achieving students will take advantage of that safety net while pursuing "reach" schools elsewhere. Our valedictorian happened to believe that her stats qualified her for an Ivy, which isn't wrong, but she didn't thumb her nose at UT when it became her only offer of admission. I might add that she's now flourishing there, and is close to receiving a degree in aerospace engineering.

    As for a student turning down Harvard for UT, it's not the first time a situation like that has arisen. It's rare, yes, but it happens, and it's a respectable choice.
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  • Boester22Boester22 74 replies6 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 80 Junior Member
    Back to OP,

    1. This really shouldnt be on the Cornell thread unless Cornell is the college in question.
    2. Dont rely on URM status to get you into anywhere you want. It can only do so much in terms of making up for lackluster numbers and will only make you look racially entitled. (I would know since I am Biracial URM)
    3. Don't worry what other black applicants are getting, worry about bolstering your own application to appeal to the school you want to attend most.

    Just my own 2 cents on the matter.
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  • william95william95 399 replies8 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 407 Member
    @ForeverFish

    Your anecdote actually does provide a trend. The only people who got into top schools / ivies are the URMs (Asians and Indians are ORMs for top schools). Obviously from their scores they're also too students and I believe they could have gotten in without the URM status but it is still silly to say that it doesn't play any role in admissions.
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  • texaspgtexaspg 16481 replies340 discussionsForum Champion Pre-Med & Medical Posts: 16,821 Forum Champion
    "As for a student turning down Harvard for UT, it's not the first time a situation like that has arisen. It's rare, yes, but it happens, and it's a respectable choice. "

    There are many who go to UT as premeds too because their parents refuse to spend the money for top schools when they have to continue spending money for med school. Texas residency provides people with one of the best choices for medical school admissions and many who go to top schools return home for medical school. So if there is an admission to a top 20 school but no money to go with it, many parents simply choose not to pay for it. Texas medical schools are filled with Ivy educated Texas residents.
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