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The Responsibility of Police Officers

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Replies to: The Responsibility of Police Officers

  • IgloooIglooo 8051 replies205 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 8,256 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    That said, police are human beings and can freeze or otherwise freak out. Nobody ever knows how they're going to react in the moment for the first time.

    You forgot that they were trained to expect the unexpectable. They are not like you and me with no prior training against violence. They were trained to expect violence and what to do when that happens. Compared to other violent crimes, school shooting is probably mild relatively speaking. Don't officers deal with active shooters outside of school? I don't see how school shooting is any scarier than dealing with seasoned criminals and freezes four deputies to non-action. I would call for a full review of the sheriff department. They also got 18 calls regarding Cruz including a few about his gun collection that went unheeded.
    edited February 2018
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  • dragon90dragon90 92 replies2 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 94 Junior Member
    A couple of points:

    1. There should be a distinction drawn here between elected sheriffs officers and career police officers. The Broward County Sheriff, like many across the country, is an elected official. Elected in this case in one of the most liberal counties in Florida. Consequently, the Broward Sheriffs Office (BSO) has both Law enforcement and Political aims and motivations, whereas the police, like Coral Springs, would be thinking law enforcement first and foremost, which may have factored into why the CSPD entered the building while the BSO stayed out.

    2. The BSO and the Broward School Superintendent Runcie established a program in 2013, called the "Promise Program" to "break the school to jail pipeline" by keeping kids out of the criminal justice system. This means misdemeanors and less serious offenses such as vandalism, pot possession, etc would be dealt with by the schools and not by the sheriffs office. Where do they draw the line for a "serious offense"? How about bringing bullets to school or getting into fights? Evidently not there. The Promise Program https://www.browardprevention.org/behavior/promise/ is intended to "safeguard the student from entering the judicial system". The goal was to reduce the percentage of students who were arrested by LEO. Did it factor into why Cruz was able to go so long without a record and so be able to pass background checks?

    3. Why the 26 minute tape delay? Has Jake Tapper asked this question? If so, I haven't seen a good answer. Certainly it wouldn't be to help the SRO control any video evidence of criminal behavior. that's crazy talk.

    4. If the NRA, Gov Scott, Sen Rubio, anyone who owns a gun, has blood on their hands, what exactly is on the hands of BSO and Broward Superintendent?

    Seeing that Israel guy on the news nauseates me. He gives a bad name to law enforcement officers everywhere with his arrogance and hypocrisy.


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  • IgloooIglooo 8051 replies205 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 8,256 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    Where do they draw the line for a "serious offense"?

    I don't think you would have trouble drawing the line with active shooting.

    Whether electoral or career, you would think a police department should be capable of protecting the public. If they fail, why bother to have a police department elected or career?
    edited February 2018
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  • anomanderanomander 1651 replies4 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,655 Senior Member
    You forgot that they were trained to expect the unexpectable. They are not like you and me with no prior training against violence.

    You can train and train and train, and still freeze when encountering a traumatic situation for the first time. It's just one of the unpredictable things about human nature. And not many cops have every actually fired their guns in the line of duty.

    For a much less traumatic example, just think of all the people who practice a speech and then freeze when standing up in front of a group for the first time. You can train in front of your friends, but when you stand up on the podium for real the very first time, you just never know how you'll react.

    So I guess this comes back to something we teach our kids. If you do something bad, are you a bad person or are you a good person who did something bad? Is that SRO actually a coward, or did he just act in a cowardly manner? I lean towards the latter.
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  • partyof5partyof5 2549 replies125 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,674 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    Might I add that most offficers make a lot of money. All of the officers that I know make six figures once they get their overtime and pick up additional details. If we include their pension and lifetime healthcare they make quite a good living.
    edited February 2018
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  • anomanderanomander 1651 replies4 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,655 Senior Member
    Why the 26 minute tape delay? Has Jake Tapper asked this question? If so, I haven't seen a good answer. Certainly it wouldn't be to help the SRO control any video evidence of criminal behavior. that's crazy talk.

    I read an interview where someone had been reviewing the tape and therefore had it rewound. Somehow that wasn't communicated to later people, who then thought the tape was live.
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  • yourmommayourmomma 1320 replies1 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,321 Senior Member
    Police nowadays are trained to consider their own safety too much, and the safety of the public too little. They are trained to protect and serve themselves in dangerous situations. That Means too often they shootiminnocent black people and people with mental illness to avoid taking the risk that the person in front of them might hurt them.

    Their training should instead put more emphasis on their selfless duty to protect the public at some personal risk. Then, when the frightful duty to rush toward gunfire arises, in the back of their mind will be the thought that taking risks to protect people is what they signed up for.

    Yeah. Should probably let the wife and daughter of Cmdr. Paul Bauer know that.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-paul-bauer-shooting-suspect-charges-20180215-story.html
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  • yourmommayourmomma 1320 replies1 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,321 Senior Member
    To me it just emphasizes, underlines, highlights that we cannot rely on a good guy with a gun to take out a bad guy with a gun, even one with lots of training not to mention a teacher.

    Or it highlights the fact that the government can't protect you so they shouldn't restrict a person's ability to protect themselves.
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  • IgloooIglooo 8051 replies205 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 8,256 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    You can train and train and train, and still freeze when encountering a traumatic situation for the first time. It's just one of the unpredictable things about human nature. And not many cops have every actually fired their guns in the line of duty.

    There were 4 deputies taking cover. All froze? Are they popsicles? Again, I don't think school shooting is as scary as any other violent crimes outside of school. With a bullet vest, a gun and training on how to care for yourself in dangerous situation, facing one kid gun man is so scary. I bet it was very scary for the teacher and the coach who died protecting kids but less scary when you've done months of training and are equipped with hardware.
    .
    edited February 2018
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  • yourmommayourmomma 1320 replies1 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,321 Senior Member
    Well according to his boss, the sheriff, he was supposed to go in and engage the shooter. We'll find out if that was a lie once we hear the radio transmissions. Some people speculate that they where told to stand down, as it is difficult to explain how 3 or 4 deputies all held position when the protocol is to go in and engage, which is what the Coral Springs police did.
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  • TatinGTatinG 6304 replies109 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 6,413 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    @dragon90

    Good points especially #2.

    If you don't arrest students, then presto, your crime statistics go down and you can brag that you are the safest community or safest school district when actually your school and community is becoming more dangerous.

    The goal should not be keeping students out of the law enforcement system when they are a danger, but protecting the rest of the student body.
    edited February 2018
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  • yourmommayourmomma 1320 replies1 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,321 Senior Member
    I'm afraid, though, that it will always be difficult to expect a police officer who usually patrols school hallways looking for truants to suddenly shift gears and execute a probably suicidal attempt to stop a shooter. If we want school police officers to be ready to do sacrifice their lives to take down shooters, they have to get more specific, ongoing training. Or we could prevent shooters from getting guns.

    You may want to look at what the police actually do. They don't just "patrol the schools" and go home. They actually do go on regular old get the bad guy duty as well.
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  • roycroftmomroycroftmom 2704 replies36 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,740 Senior Member
    The gun most commonly used in school shootings (unlike handguns in other crimes) has an effective fire rate of 120 bullets per minute, and causes immensely more tisue damage than other guns. I doubt there was much time to make a difference.
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  • 123Mom456123Mom456 855 replies6 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 861 Member
    The Promise Program also keeps things from popping up on background checks. We are past the time were we should be washing away juvenile records and giving a clean slate to young adults who were troubled kids. School expulsions and juvenile records should appear on a background check.
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  • milee30milee30 1980 replies13 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,993 Senior Member
    "You may want to look at what the police actually do. They don't just "patrol the schools" and go home. They actually do go on regular old get the bad guy duty as well."

    Regular police definitely have a variety of duties, but the man in question was a Sheriff's Deputy assigned full-time to that particular school. It's not uncommon in Florida, apparently because we have them here too. The official title of that deputy is School Resource Officer, but he's just like any other Deputy. The one difference is that other Deputies have different duties assigned to them in different areas, but SROs are generally assigned to a single school and spend their entire active day at that same school.

    I've often questioned whether it makes sense to have a full time SRO in our schools. To me, it seems unnecessary - a fully trained and armed Deputy spending full time in a school that (in most cases) needs Deputy type services once or twice a month? But the one big issue that it makes sense to have a full time SRO Deputy to address is ... school shootings. Having a Deputy armed and with body armor onsite and ready to address unfolding violence is the single biggest reason to actually have a full time SRO Deputy. If we don't expect an SRO Deputy to go in and face an active school shooter situation, then why the heck would we need a full time SRO? Either these SRO Deputies should be fully expected to engage and address ongoing and active violence or we should stop wasting the resources having them at schools.
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