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Any Guesses on the New Amazon HQ?

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Replies to: Any Guesses on the New Amazon HQ?

  • bluebayoubluebayou Registered User Posts: 25,925 Senior Member
    edited February 16
    I do understand we have to spend money to make money.

    If the State/City taxes were lower than other areas, there'd be no need for a discount.

    Look at it this way: a discount against future taxes is similar to a merit scholarship which is a de facto discount.
    Bluebayou, I won't see revenue from the guy who sells boots or schmancy sports gear or sells dinners. My family and my neighbors and friends are outside that revenue stream. That's the flaw in thinking that I see.

    I disagree. To the extent that that the State and City increase their tax base [by billions per the projection by the Governor], you will "see" the (tax) revenue as it will get put to use paying salaries of teachers, firefighters, cops, health care for the homeless, subway improvements, and many other government services. (If the Gov & Mayor are lying, or playing fun with numbers, vote their butts out.)
    But don't fool yourselves that minimum wage, 30 hours/week, is "lifting" a segment of the population that needs a true break, a liveable income, better housing at reasonable prices. It helps a segment already doing well, qualified for the tech jobs (or some high level support positions.) It is no panacea.

    No, no panacea, but most jobs are not. I was born in the projects, and to the only way out was with a job -- ANY job had a chance to get you out. No job = no chance.

    btw: I don't fool myself into believing that the term "living wage" means anything besides great soundbites. Ask the folks at the restaurant that used to work with AOC.

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/ocasio-cortez-minimum-wage-jobs/
  • jonrijonri Registered User Posts: 7,298 Senior Member
    edited February 17
    I suggest that people who think NYC should have caved to Amazon listen to state senator Gianaris explaining why the Amazon proposal wasn't good for NYC: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1gqxvnnZYVexB

    Then there's Jeff Bezo's explanation. http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/02/jeff-bezos-pens-why-im-leaving-new-york-medium-essay.html This comment in it made me laugh out loud. (I live on the subway line he's talking about.) "The way the subways run on time, with ample space to accommodate the people stepping into the 25,000 new jobs Amazon and I planned to create in the next decade."

    I do think we need to have a national conversation about whether we should allow megacorporations like Amazon to play cities off against each other to get the best possible financial deal for locating in one of them. Is it right that the biggest, most successful corporations should be given better deals than their smaller competitors?

    Everyone here points to Google. No, it's not 25,000 jobs but it's 7,000 and it worked with the local community and didn't ask for secrecy and extra incentives.
  • busdriver11busdriver11 Registered User Posts: 15,086 Senior Member
    I do think we need to have a national conversation about whether we should allow megacorporations like Amazon to play cities off against each other to get the best possible financial deal for locating in one of them. Is it right that the biggest, most successful corporations should be given better deals than their smaller competitors?

    What? We are going to have a national conversation about whether to allow cities to compete for business? Many cities are interested in the biggest corporations, with the largest number of jobs provided. It is certainly each localities right to decide what incentives they offer, and to whom.
  • SatchelSFSatchelSF Registered User Posts: 1,385 Senior Member
    edited February 17
    I do think we need to have a national conversation about whether we should allow megacorporations like Amazon to play cities off against each other to get the best possible financial deal for locating in one of them.
    Let me rephrase this, more accurately. Should we allow the Federal government to prevent states from administering their tax systems as their constituents want? It is a subtle issue for sure, but technically what we need to do is to limit the scope of state discretion in ways not already limited either by the Constitution (e.g., due process, no "takings without just comp., etc.) or existing Federal statute.

    Also, should this limitation of discretion apply only to megacorporations, or all corporations? Who decides which ones are covered?

    This is a very tricky area.
  • bluebayoubluebayou Registered User Posts: 25,925 Senior Member
    edited February 17
    I do think we need to have a national conversation about whether we should allow megacorporations like Amazon to play cities off against each other to get the best possible financial deal for locating in one of them. Is it right that the biggest, most successful corporations should be given better deals than their smaller competitors?

    I would suggest that 'a national convo' is a good sound bite by the Senator, but naive. From a legal and practical matter, the feds have zero authority over state and local tax laws.

    btw; the Senator was disingenuous when he claimed that Europe has banned direct support to corporations. While he is technically correct, it was off point, as European countries do offer varying tax discounts (which is what Amazon would have received) to favored companies/industries (e.g, film). But another great sound bite by a smart guy.
  • bluebayoubluebayou Registered User Posts: 25,925 Senior Member
    survey of mayors on tax-incentives:
    Despite the huge volume of research on the misuse and ineffectiveness of incentives, still more than eight in 10 mayors (84 percent) believe that business incentives are “good policy” for recruiting companies and jobs to their communities.

    https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/02/business-tax-breaks-mayors-amazon-hq2/582166/
  • wis75wis75 Registered User Posts: 13,630 Senior Member
    Comment about math versus CS majors. Some time ago there was a long article about how math was a great background for CS. I agree. Son added CS to his math major and that has served him well. Likewise those Midwestern schools- make for recruited employees elsewhere in the country. Now they will have east coast options instead of just west coast for the biggest players.
  • HamurtleHamurtle Registered User Posts: 1,837 Senior Member
    edited February 18
    We’ll if either St. Louis or Kansas City will try another bid. St. Louis would be logical since it’s a key transportation center with several national ranked universities in the city. Add Mizzou and there should be enough talent to support Amazon 2.

    I believe there was a joint effort between St. Louis/KC last time.
  • BunsenBurnerBunsenBurner Registered User Posts: 37,716 Senior Member
    edited February 23
    Meanwhile, at HQ1... welcome to the land of $18 hot dog. 😎

    https://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/what-happens-when-a-top-seattle-chef-opens-two-places-in-the-amazon-spheres-a-look-at-deep-dive-and-willmotts-ghost/

    At the same time, across the Lake and elsewhere, the famous $1.50 Kirkland Signature hot dog is being proudly served. With a soda - included! ;)
  • greenwitchgreenwitch Registered User Posts: 8,462 Senior Member
    No $1 IKEA hotdog?

    (I’m trying out the new reply button...)
  • IgloooIglooo Registered User Posts: 8,056 Senior Member
    edited February 23
    Looks like the button work. But it looks the same.

    (I am replying to your post using the box provided.)
  • techmom99techmom99 Registered User Posts: 3,280 Senior Member
    I thought it would be a good thing if Amazon came to NYC. I had even hoped that one or more of my kids could get some type of job there. I do use several of the train lines that pass through the area on a fairly regular basis as there is a courthouse in LIC that I go to sometimes. The trains are crowded but adding another train or two to the schedule and/or having Amazon stagger work hours could have dealt with those issues.

    I was at a deposition yesterday. Two of the individual parties are middle aged Latinas who used to be best friends but are now involved in a lawsuit. Both of them were very happy that Amazon pulled out because "$15 is not a living wage." I agreed that it isn't, but pointed that is the minimum for those with no training and experience and it comes with benefits and potential. I also pointed out that ancillary services would have risen up - there are not that many restaurants, the area could, with more people coming in each day, have supported more barber shops/beauty parlors, dry cleaners and the like. Many people like to do errands like that on their lunch hours. When I worked long hours in Manhattan, I used to bring my dry cleaning in because the cleaners in my neighborhood (Astoria) were closed when I got home and I didn't want to waste my weekends doing chores.

    I am saddened that NYC is not getting Amazon and I say this as someone who rarely uses its services.
  • notrichenoughnotrichenough Registered User Posts: 8,948 Senior Member
    You can't control state and local taxes at the federal level, but you can use the federal tax code to influence behavior.

    For example - if a company gets a local tax incentive that not every company gets, they cannot deduct any local taxes from their federal tax return.
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