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EA Ivy vs ED other top 20 colleges

RiversiderRiversider 694 replies76 postsRegistered User Member
edited May 13 in Ivy League
Odds of getting in Ivies without big hooks are really really low on RD, SCEA or EA. There is practically no advantage doing EA or SCEA there. If you can afford to pay or have a low EFC , you are better off using ED to other top 20 colleges. Don’t waste your early card. ED is a big advantage.
edited May 13
40 replies
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Replies to: EA Ivy vs ED other top 20 colleges

  • damon30damon30 1147 replies5 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Make sure the ED application is to the top choice. Getting accepted ED when you really wanted to go to a different school is a decision that will haunt you.
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  • ThinkOnThinkOn 531 replies1 postsRegistered User Member
    edited May 13
    I think it's different for everyone based on the facts and circumstances of their application, desires, etc. If my kids took the above advice, they would be matriculating at very different schools this fall. What is important is to really understand the field and to make an informed decision. It could have so easily gone the other way for my kids who went SCEA...they really struggled with the decision. But in the end, they applied to the schools they really wanted to go to.
    edited May 13
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  • socaldad2002socaldad2002 1207 replies24 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    "ED is a big advantage"

    I'm not sure ED is the best option to get into some Top 25 college as an unhooked applicant. In fact, for some colleges like Duke you might even be at a disadvantage. Let me explain. Duke's ED rate is 18% and RD is almost 6%, but when you factor in legacy, athlete, URM, development admits, special talent/celebrity, and over all stronger applicant class in ED, that 18% acceptance rate will drop significantly, 850 students (close to 100% yield). For the most part, RD applicants will be unhooked and a slightly less strong applicant pool (2,100 accepted with a yield of 40%).

    The only real difference I see if that some ED applicants (800 or 16% deferred) will be deferred to RD but of those pushed to RD, not sure how many get in (45 students (5.7% of 800 or maybe their acceptance rate is even lower than the general RD populaiton?)).

    The bottom line is that if you are an "unhooked" Duke applicant applying ED, you might actually be worse than applying RD, which is counter intuitive to many here on CC advocating to apply ED. Hmm...

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  • Penn95Penn95 2283 replies78 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited May 13
    @Riversider Well sure ED has higher chances, but the tippy top and most ambitious students would most likely not want to forgo a chance at HYPSM through SCEA/REA in favor a more likely bet at an ED ivy/elite.
    edited May 13
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  • apparently22apparently22 43 replies0 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    There are some top terrific LACs (too many to name) and Universities (U Chicago, Wash U, Vandy) that offer EDII options should one's EA or SCEA choice school falls through.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 28760 replies56 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Yes, ED can give a boost. But so can EA at the HYP schools. I know a handful of kids that did get accepted EA to those schools with no hooks. A study of Harvards’s data revealed that EA unhooked applicants do get a boost, and it was more than just a bit. MIT and CIT do not give any advantage to applying early. I suspect the deliberately manage their EA acceptances so that it’d that way.

    The problem with ED is that you compromise your chances for merit money. That money is usually distributed by Admissions to sweeten the deal for the best candidates, have that in the mix when they are weighing their choices. You have done the deal when you accept ED so it is very rare to get merit money which is usually awarded in the spring anyway.
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  • RiversiderRiversider 694 replies76 postsRegistered User Member
    edited May 20
    @cptofthehouse

    None of the top EA schools give any merit money so if you are looking for merit money to make it work, it’s a moot point and a waste either way.
    edited May 20
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 26656 replies174 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited May 20
    In fact, for some colleges like Duke you might even be at a disadvantage.

    Huh? Duke has been one school that has been upfront about ED being an advantage for the unhooked (at least that's what they have said in the admissions sessions).

    There is no question that ED is an advantage at every school that offers it. I also agree with cpt: SCEA can be an advantage as well.
    edited May 20
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 28760 replies56 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    I’m not talking about merit money from the SCEA schools. I understand there is no merit money there.

    I am looking at the scenario of someone who is looking at the possibility of getting into HYPMS, willing to pay that premium, and weighing the advantage of SCEA there versus Rice, Hopkins, Vanderbilt, UCh et al. Student has a small chance for merit at that second grouping of schools but does have a strong enough academic resume that the possibility is there. On the other hand, the way things are heading, it is possible that kid gets shut out of all of those schools too. And let’s say he really does love Rice, and parent has looked at it and can see it as a great choice too, but they are Texans and every top Texan kid is going to be applying there. It would be so sweet to wrap it up with an ED that just might boost that app to an accept. Rice gets a high stat great kid as a certainty, kid is done by year end with this whole thing.

    But then the HPYSM Card is gone. Likely so is merit money from Rice because why should they pay for a done deal.

    I see this scenario a lot. I’ve played parts of this game before as well, so I know the moves well. Might not be where you are, but plenty of parents and kids looking at how to play this out
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  • giantoctopusgiantoctopus 94 replies47 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    edited May 28
    Kids like mine are virtually shut out no matter what their record is. No reason to even apply.
    edited May 28
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  • CU123CU123 3425 replies61 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    You should always apply to where you really want to go, if that school has ED and your good with that then apply ED, or if you want to go for an SCEA school apply there. It only really comes into question when you have two top schools that are equal in your eyes with one having ED and one SCEA, at that point I would lean to the ED school to increase my odds.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 28760 replies56 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Ideally, ^^^. Yes. That is what I’d say. Many times though, students just want to get into a top school. And they do settle. Figures enhancing chance at Johns Hopkins better than the smaller odds at Columbia. Statistically, they are often right. You miss at Columbia ED, and forego the ED advantage at Hopkins where just might have gotten in with that boost.
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  • socaldad2002socaldad2002 1207 replies24 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    @bluebayou “Huh? Duke has been one school that has been upfront about ED being an advantage for the unhooked (at least that's what they have said in the admissions sessions).”

    The problem is we just don’t know the real numbers as these colleges won’t share that information with anyone so they can state anything they wany about ED having better acceptance rates but we will never know. . I ran the numbers using the best available data and have come to the conclusion that the ED acceptance rate for the unhooked applicant is the same or worse compared to RD. The only caveat is that some ED applicants can be deferred to RD.

    The bottom line is that ED for the “unhooked” applicant is not the admission boost everyone claims it is.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 28760 replies56 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Harvard has claimed for years that applying early has no advantage. When the statistics and admissions data was carefully examined, the conclusion was that there was a definite advantage to unhooked applicants to apply early.

    IMO, and that of statisticians I’ve known, that has always been the case, looking st the numbers. MIT and CIT numbers do show no advantage and I suspect that measures are in place to keep EA rates at s certain point. Without such measures, I think it is natural for EA to be advantageous.
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  • KLSDKLSD 245 replies4 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    What does your HS add to the application pool. Your application is reviewed along with your HS classmates applying. When ED SECA acceptances are given, That may impact your RD application.
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  • roycroftmomroycroftmom 2806 replies36 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Yes, Harvard has claimed that for years. Unfortunately, it appears from the current litigation that such a claim was not accurate. I understand the evidence shows, controlling for all other factors, a substantial advantage to applying early there, even for the unhooked.
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  • BKSquaredBKSquared 1262 replies4 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    I agree with @CU123, apply EA, SCEA or ED to your top choice school with the following caveats.

    I would hesitate to apply ED anywhere if financial aid is a major factor.

    You should only apply SCEA to HYPS as an unhooked applicant if you are truly a competitive applicant (top 5%, test scores solidly above median). If you are such a competitive applicant, a generally applicable strategy is to apply SCEA to one of those schools and apply early to highly regarded rolling admissions schools, typically honors programs in state flagships, typically in state.

    If you fall below that competitive level (say you are only top 10% or your scores are in the low to mid 1400's), I would look EA to the next level of schools in terms of selectivity as well as the rolling admissions schools mentioned above. The goal is to try to get into a high match before December 31 so you can cull the list of RD applications and maybe get some data on how strong your application really is based on the first batch of applications submitted. Are you shooting too high or are you where you think you are based on acceptances, rejections and deferrals.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 28760 replies56 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    EA is not just to get a leg up on admissions at the selective schools. It’s ideal to get those likely schools, the ones sure to take you and that you can afford on an EA or early rolling basis, so you can breathe easily and apply to wherever you please without danger of being shut out.

    It’s also s huge slap in the face, regardless of the fact that you are in very good company, overwhelmingly big company of those not accepted to those highly selected EA schools, so that it does make you feel a bit better just to have a school in your pocket, maybe even with merit money or prospects of it by year end.

    Early Action can also be a litmus year as to where you stand. You got into School A with a scholarship, B in the honors program without money in hand but a possibility later, C full pay and WL at D, a highly selective school. You can shape the rest of your list accordingly with the your other choices, if you care to do so. Or just buy those lottery tickets for RD.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 33093 replies358 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Look, no one has a better shot with ED or other Early apps, if they are not fully the candidates the college is looking for. No boost just for applying early and promising to attend. You need to match in the right ways, to the max, and not play the crapshoot game. Take the time to self assess how you match what they want. Not just what you want. Not just stats and some titles.
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  • 2manycollegequestions4me2manycollegequestions4me 177 replies26 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    edited June 4
    Deleted
    edited June 4
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