right arrow
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
We've updated the Topics page of our website to better organize and share our expert content. Read more about it here.

Overlap between automatic merit scholarships and solid engineering

245

Replies to: Overlap between automatic merit scholarships and solid engineering

  • BingeWatcherBingeWatcher 883 replies7 threadsRegistered User Member
    edited September 8
    @eyemgh , Thank you so much for replying, I seem to remember you are up in PNW and son at SLO. OK, We are in West Texas, D is a high school jr. prepping for PSAT with goal of NMF, on target to make it. stats are: 1590 SAT, top 1% of her class. taking the following APs now: AP physics 1, CHEM, Psych, Lang, Calc BC, has taken APUSH 5, APCS 5, APHG 5. Plans to take AP Physics C, AP stats IB HL math, Lit, Gov/Macro.
    She has done several coding and engineering camps and enjoyed the circuit lab in EE summer camp.
    Any way, EFC is unaffordable at 35K, single mom. Dad will not be contributing to college and he is a high earner so CSS schools are off the table. She also does not have the cred for competitive scholarships. I think we should just count on AUTO merit.
    I should be able to contribute 15K a year. I see Washington state gives full tuition and University of Idaho has tuition plus room and board (double) for National Merit. Are those schools recruited by companies in PWN, she would love to work at Boeing in Everette.
    edited September 8
    · Reply · Share
  • eyemgheyemgh 5571 replies121 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited September 8
    @BingeWatcher, yes, from the PNW and my son just finished his BS/MS in ME at Cal Poly and is now at a stealth mode startup in LA.

    Don't break the budget. Utah also offers some full rides to attract high caliber GPAs and scores. It's an under appreciated program, as is Wyoming, which is pretty cheap. I second Iowa State if the money is right.

    As for career dreams right now, they will change radically as she really begins to understand what she will actually be doing as an engineer (really doesn't happen until well into 3rd year, sometimes even 4th year) and gets to know people at companies.

    My son was enamored with Elon Musk. He dreamed of Tesla and Space X. He was ahead enough (basically taking classes with students a year older than him) and stayed for his MS, so he got to know students from two classes that he could query about how they liked their jobs. After that he didn't apply to either.

    OP, what state are YOU from and what's your yearly budget?
    edited September 8
    · Reply · Share
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 77793 replies678 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited September 9
    Knowsstuff wrote: »
    The big name companies don't really matter. Few will get a job with Amazon, Google etc. It's going to be the no name companies that you most likely will get a job at.

    Most of the big names recruit widely, plus applicants know who they are and can easily apply to them. However, they may be quite selective in their interview processes.

    The smaller no-name companies may recruit more locally or regionally for convenience, and it may be harder for someone out of the area to know that they exist to apply to them.
    edited September 9
    · Reply · Share
  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 22709 replies15 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Yes, I suspect we might sacrifice something by paying less

    I don't think you will sacrifice anything. Plenty of good schools that offer engineering that are very affordable.
    · Reply · Share
  • KnowsstuffKnowsstuff 3989 replies16 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Both large and small no name companies will be at their job /intern fairs for engineering. Not sure how students wouldn't know about them since they will be at their job fairs and students usually have access to the list of companies presenting or coming to campus. Really not that hard to figure out, on really any campus.
    · Reply · Share
  • Mama212529Mama212529 4 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Well, now son is saying maybe not engineering. Maybe international relations, maybe math or statistics, maybe a double-major... He's at the start of junior year so still trying to figure things out. Likes STEM, but also really likes history/geography/politics. I went into college undecided myself so we'll see. We live in Alabama so UA and Auburn are close to free, but at this point he wants to leave the state. I'd rather he went in-state and got a masters in whatever he wanted, but it's a joint decision. Maybe he'll come back around to engineering and in any case I hope the original post remains helpful for someone whose child does choose it.
    · Reply · Share
  • KnowsstuffKnowsstuff 3989 replies16 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @Mama212529. So funny to me that he wants to leave the state and like the whole Midwest wants to go to Alabama (maybe that's why) 🤔.. Let him know that a debt free education is the smartest education to grty.
    · Reply · Share
  • cshell2cshell2 441 replies5 threadsRegistered User Member
    Knowsstuff wrote: »
    So funny to me that he wants to leave the state and like the whole Midwest wants to go to Alabama

    For the free tuition! If we had deals like that up here, we wouldn't be looking in AL. But, it looks like a couple schools might come up cheaper for us up here anyhow.

    · Reply · Share
  • KnowsstuffKnowsstuff 3989 replies16 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Lol... Seems like everyone in Illinois is trying to get the free or close tuition at Alabama and the like.. Haha..
    · Reply · Share
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 77793 replies678 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Mama212529 wrote: »
    Well, now son is saying maybe not engineering. Maybe international relations, maybe math or statistics, maybe a double-major... He's at the start of junior year so still trying to figure things out. Likes STEM, but also really likes history/geography/politics.

    That may actually be a more difficult problem.

    * Undecided students need to consider difficulty of changing major. For universities divided into divisions (engineering, arts & sciences, business, etc.), that can affect which division to apply to.
    * Undecided students need to choose first year course work to work toward all possible majors they may choose, so that they do not accidentally close off some possible majors of interest by not taking the needed prerequisites.
    * Undecided students may be less able to take advantage of major-specific scholarships or other programs.
    * Post-graduation goals associated with some majors may be more school (or department) prestige conscious than engineering majors.
    · Reply · Share
  • cshell2cshell2 441 replies5 threadsRegistered User Member
    My son isn't 100% certain on engineering. I told him to just start there and if he decided it wasn't for him it would be much easier to move to almost anything else than the other way around. This is also why we're choosing schools that have a lot of options and aren't JUST awesome engineering schools.
    · Reply · Share
  • Mama212529Mama212529 4 replies3 threadsRegistered User New Member
    Yeah, just trying to give him some time. Major major ambivalence means we need to explore more options, but no real harm at this point in the process. I'm actually enjoying learning about different schools and programs, and maybe I'll pick up information that's useful for my daughters too.
    · Reply · Share
  • eyemgheyemgh 5571 replies121 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Students who are very successful in engineering generally KNOW that's what they are cut out for. It is so difficult and you don't really even get a feel for what engineering is until fairly late in the game, that the equivocal ones, or the ones that choose it for the money, tend to bail. There's a reason that engineering is the largest exporter for major changes at most schools.

    That said, it far easier to start in engineering and to switch out than it is to start in something else and try to switch in.
    · Reply · Share
  • CU123CU123 3543 replies65 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Just be aware if you are graduating from a ABET accredited Tier 2 or Tier 3 engineering school, you will need to graduate with a 3.5+ GPA to be competitive and you won't be getting a sniff from top tier companies at top tier salaries. Still you should be able to find a job in todays market, but 100K plus starting is not in your future. Look at the average starting engineering salary for your major and subtract 10K (someone has to be below the average). So unless your in a very high COL area where they have to give you above average salaries just to actually live there expect a below average salary.
    · Reply · Share
  • BingeWatcherBingeWatcher 883 replies7 threadsRegistered User Member
    @CU123, how does one know what Tier schools are? ie....US News Report Rank undergrad 1-25 Tier 1, 25-50 Tier 2? Can you explain please?
    · Reply · Share
  • CU123CU123 3543 replies65 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    If the school doesn't have a strong engineering program its not Tier one, personally there are several ways to decipher this, the American Association of Universities are generally considered Tier one for engineering, but this isn't all inclusive since there are a number of smaller colleges that are just as good like @eyemgh suggests. I'll disagree with him on the Ivy's just because the cohort for them is top notch and they could have gone to almost any other university. It really comes down to the cohort attending the college, is the average ACT for engineering students above 30 (just my personal number) for the college? If its not then they have to take a slower approach with less depth in the classes. They may teach the same subjects but the depth simply isn't there because the students simply can't do it. I had a young engineer who graduated from what I considered a tier 2 college and asked isn't Calc 3, Calc 3 everywhere? The answer to that is an emphatic no, Calc at UCB is not the same as Calc at New Mexico State. That is just reality. They just have way smarter students at UCB. Both are ABET accredited engineering programs. The business world understands that and they compete for that top talent. The degrees are not equal. The good news is you can still get a job. graduating from schools other then Tier one.
    · Reply · Share
  • KnowsstuffKnowsstuff 3989 replies16 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @CU123. I think you raise good points. Also the learning in high schools are not the same,even though the standardized tests are given to equal that out. Same as engineering standardized tests are given but the depth and understanding that some schools go into is different then others.
    · Reply · Share
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 77793 replies678 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    CU123 wrote: »
    It really comes down to the cohort attending the college, is the average ACT for engineering students above 30 (just my personal number) for the college? If its not then they have to take a slower approach with less depth in the classes. They may teach the same subjects but the depth simply isn't there because the students simply can't do it. I had a young engineer who graduated from what I considered a tier 2 college and asked isn't Calc 3, Calc 3 everywhere? The answer to that is an emphatic no, Calc at UCB is not the same as Calc at New Mexico State. That is just reality. They just have way smarter students at UCB. Both are ABET accredited engineering programs. The business world understands that and they compete for that top talent. The degrees are not equal.

    Seems like you are judging college graduates by how they did in high school and their parents' financial circumstances and choices (the main factors determining the name of one's college).

    The high minimum standards of ABET accredited engineering mean that even if a college's entering cohort is weak, its graduating engineering cohort has the strength to do engineering (this may be less the case in some other majors where there is no external accreditation or where the standards of such are low, though).

    Regarding UCB, you do realize that many graduates started at community colleges, took calculus 1, 2, 3 and other lower level courses there, and then transferred to UCB to complete upper level engineering courses to graduate with engineering degrees, right? Do you treat these UCB graduates with disdain because they took calculus 3 at non selective community colleges?
    · Reply · Share
  • eyemgheyemgh 5571 replies121 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    I think the "strong cohort" approach is a strawman argument. It's really the only argument left for a program like Yale or Swarthmore where EVERY other facet of the program is comparatively weak. There's no evidence that stronger cohorts make stronger engineers. In fact, there's evidence, plenty of it, to the fact that high calibur students will achieve equivalent success no matter where they go. Sure, experiences and hand holding might be different, but I would never trade facilities and depth/breadth of curriculum for the sole sake of being around a bunch of other "smart kids." There's also no evidence that the stronger average cohort will have a faster pace, proof based math classes, etc. The only way to know that is to review the curricula of the individual schools in consideration.

    There are plenty of good schools in the AAU, but some certainly are not worthy of being called tier one. Mizzou (Go Tigers!), isn't even the best public engineering program in Missouri. Rolla is. Yale? Please. Oregon doesn't even offer engineering. I'd put A&M, Utah, ASU and Virginia Tech ahead of quite a few programs on that list.

    At the end of the day, engineering is very egalitarian. Students get out of it what they put into it, largely based on the level of horsepower they bring to the game, no matter where they go.
    · Reply · Share
Sign In or Register to comment.

Recent Activity