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Regretting ED...

2

Replies to: Regretting ED...

  • trex792trex792 Registered User Posts: 104 Junior Member
    The New York Times had this article on the home page of their website yesterday. The original poster is from New York. He has a right to know. Emory should let people who were admitted early apply elsewhere after all of the embarrassing incidents that have taken place. I guess that a lot of people have problems with their college experience. But if I had known about the true SAT score statistics at Emory, I would have never have gone there. I am trying to get an article published in a major publication about how Emory has become a completely unethical institution, concerned only about its image.
  • moimer123moimer123 Registered User Posts: 10 New Member
    trex, if you don't mind me prodding, what else is it that you dislike about emory? I'm an incoming freshman for this fall and I'm honestly just curious about any negatives of this university.
  • goodthinggoodthing Registered User Posts: 20 New Member
    Moimer, IMO, you should not be asking Trex for his opinions. Clearly, he has an axe to grind with Emory, and perhaps for his own good PERSONAL reasons. But, his negative remarks feel angry and vindictive to me, and not reflective of students currently attending Emory.
    If at all possible, you need to ask students face to face who attend Emory their thoughts on the school. Hopefully you did this before applying ED. Has Emory had missteps - some major - this past year? Yes. Does this mean it is not a top quality institution? No. I think we all are responsible for our own journey through college and life. IF you don't like something happening at Emory, it will be up to you to work to change it, or not. If you don't feel you are having the impact for change you want, then you will have to decide if you need to do something differently. For the unhappy at Emory, that might be transferring. Life is all about choices. People can choose to be negative and complain, or they can choose to find common ground and solve problems.
  • trex792trex792 Registered User Posts: 104 Junior Member
    Moimer123, the administration at Emory is incompetent and also very arrogant. The false rankings data should have been discovered earlier. In 2006 Emory said that they found the data supplied on alumni giving to US News and World report was mistakenly too low. They got US News and World report to correct it. It was a huge difference in the percent of alumni who donated. Maybe that should have been a red flag that whoever was collecting the data to give to USNWR didn't know what they were doing. But they only corrected data that made the University look better. However, you can't find this information online because Emory's student newspaper changed their website immediately after the rankings scandal broke and the old website has been down forever because of "server issues". Also, the University's admissions department turned a blind eye towards people in foreign countries that paid other people to take the SAT for them. This was partially a financial decision, because international students aren't entitled to financial aid. It boosted the average SAT scores. Top university officials had events at the Korean embassy to boost numbers of international students even more. Emory's endowment has been mismanaged. They have gotten lower returns than other schools with top endowments. They used to have a lot of money in Coca-Cola stock, which has done very well. But they instead "diversified" into risky bets that didn't pay off. They have a ridiculous financial aid program, which is bleeding the school's budget. Cornell, which has a similar sized endowment, had to scale back their financial aid commitments recently. Emory can't do this, because they're having trouble getting students to apply.

    Not the Emory that an Alum Remembers : The Emory Wheel
  • whenhenwhenhen Registered User Posts: 5,641 Senior Member
    But if I had known about the true SAT score statistics at Emory, I would have never have gone there.
    Do you seriously believe that a fifty point difference in real vs. reported SAT scores makes a difference in academic quality of the student body?
    But they only corrected data that made the University look better. However, you can't find this information online because Emory's student newspaper changed their website immediately after the rankings scandal broke and the old website has been down forever because of "server issues".
    This reads like a conspiracy theory. I doubt the Emory Wheel changed websites because of the rankings issue. When I was applying to colleges, I looked at each schools' newspaper's website. The website for the Emory Wheel simply paled in comparison to even the websites of small LACs' newspapers, so it makes sense that they changed platforms. FWIW, the old website was available last month, but I believe the Wheel is trying to integrate the archives into the current site.
    Also, the University's admissions department turned a blind eye towards people in foreign countries that paid other people to take the SAT for them. This was partially a financial decision, because international students aren't entitled to financial aid.
    And how do you propose they monitor this? Should they require all internationals to come to the US for a proctored SAT and TOEFL interview? Btw the new SAT rules should cut down on this (just the fact that the collegeboard had to implement them shows it wasn't an Emory specific issue).
    Top university officials had events at the Korean embassy to boost numbers of international students even more
    Which is something that many universities, including some lesser state flagships like UIUC do. Also, I went to the house of an alumni during Dinner for 12 (something that all Emory students should do at least once before graduating), and she mentioned that part of the purpose of these events is to boost Emory's international prestige since most internationals are only aware of MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and Harvard.
    They have a ridiculous financial aid program, which is bleeding the school's budget. Cornell, which has a similar sized endowment, had to scale back their financial aid commitments recently. Emory can't do this, because they're having trouble getting students to apply.
    Could it also be that Emory wants to have an economically diverse student body? Currently of the top 50 privates, Emory has the second highest percent of Pell Grant recipients. Emory, despite what the protesters may imply, IS an institution that values diversity in all of its forms. One way to preserve diversity is by committing to a need blind, full need admissions policy. On a tangential note, most Emory students think that while Wagner could have chosen a better example, or at least acknowledged that slavery is abhorrent, protesting it is excessive.
  • trex792trex792 Registered User Posts: 104 Junior Member
    Yes, the SAT scores are a huge deal. Emory marketed itself to students who were too bright to benefit from the education provided. Even the president of the University admits that the financial aid is needed to attract students. "He also said that the University is experiencing financial urgency due to a significant increase in financial aid, but will continue to offer need blind financial aid in order to attract the best possible incoming class." The financial aid commitments are an unsustainable waste over the long term. They don't even buy the University good standing with liberal media publications like the New York Times. The Emory administration should not pat themselves on the back about giving away others people's money, when they are embroiled in multiple scandals.

    Wagner Hosts ?Chit Chat? : The Emory Wheel
  • esimpnoxinesimpnoxin Registered User Posts: 182 Junior Member
    Look, the discrepancy was like 30 points, and even after receiving the new scores, USNews still kept Emory ranked at #20.
  • floridadad55floridadad55 Registered User Posts: 2,262 Senior Member
    The truth is that it almost doesn't matter what school you go to (as long as it is a top school).

    You would find your niche at any school you decided to attend, and make a life there.

    You should look at the positive. Emory is a good school. Atlanta is a pretty good school.

    What school would you go to if Emory were not in the picture?

    That school has its plusses and minuses too.
  • trex792trex792 Registered User Posts: 104 Junior Member
    Atlanta is a pretty good school???
  • moimer123moimer123 Registered User Posts: 10 New Member
    he probably meant city
  • whenhenwhenhen Registered User Posts: 5,641 Senior Member
    The financial aid commitments are an unsustainable waste over the long term. They don't even buy the University good standing with liberal media publications like the New York Times. The Emory administration should not pat themselves on the back about giving away others people's money, when they are embroiled in multiple scandals.

    What makes a better news story, talking about how Emory was ranked one of the best value universities in the nation or reporting on an editorial that some deem racist, others not, that the president of an extremely well respected university published?

    For the record, financial aid is all about "giving away other people's money". One of Emory's selling points is that it's extremely economically diverse, with the vast majority of domestic students receiving some sort of financial aid. If you wanted to go to a school that doesn't believe in redistributing money for financial aid, you should have gone to NYU. There you and your full pay peers could have congratulated yourself on your parents' financial prudence while watching your less wealthy peers struggle under the weight of $41,000 in student loans (and that's not counting the ones their parents took out).

    Also, a university can congratulate themselves for generous financial aid practices while dealing with other scandals. Just look at Harvard's cheating scandal, or the Naval Academy's multiple drug busts. I think a far larger scandal would be allowing its students to graduate with such obscenely high debt levels that they cannot hope to settle down or pursue interesting jobs. Emory, to the best of its ability, tries to prevent this from happening, and if that means closing a, quite frankly poor grad school in Spanish, so be it.

    FWIW, I was disappointed by the cuts in the econ and visual arts department, and believe, solely on the basis of the faculty no confidence vote, that Wagner needs to go.
  • whenhenwhenhen Registered User Posts: 5,641 Senior Member
    Yes, the SAT scores are a huge deal. Emory marketed itself to students who were too bright to benefit from the education provided.

    A 30 points difference on the SAT or a 1 pt difference on the ACT means almost nothing. For the SAT that's the difference between one or two more questions missed. The first time I took the SAT I earned a 770 on the critical reading section. Do you honestly believe that a student who scored an 800 on it is a significantly better reader than I am? Maybe he just knew that one extra obscure vocab word, or skipped a question when I bubbled in the incorrect answer.

    If it was revealed that Emory's SAT scores were inflated by 400 points, then yes, as a potential applicant, I'd be concerned. But a 30 point difference. Please. Anyone who'd be turned off by that score, and thinks himself vastly more intelligent than those plebeians who only scored better than 97% of all test takers, should look in the mirror to find out who the stupid one is.

    One final note. The senior vice provost of Oklahoma State, an institution that gets students from both ends of the academic spectrum, wrote an article basically lambasting the supposedly predictive effect of SAT scores on academic success. Our Fractured Meritocracy - The Conversation - The Chronicle of Higher Education The UCs, which are designed for the best California high school graduates, also found a low correlation between college GPA and standardized scores. Far more important, they discovered, were rigor of coursework and overall GPA. In UC Berkeley's opinion the 2300 SAT 3.2 UC GPA student will likely do far worse than another applicant with an 1800 SAT, 4.5 UC GPA. The former did extremely well on a four hour test. The latter did extremely well for 6 semesters worth of teachers with various expectations.
  • ExpendableAssetExpendableAsset Registered User Posts: 81 Junior Member
    Going to your state's flagship isn't much of a disadvantage than going to someplace like Emory. The name of your school barely matters in this country if you go to a top 50. We don't live in China or England last I checked. We live in a country where the community college graduates can go on to have very successful careers and Harvard students could end up homeless (even if they didn't do any drugs or drink or commit any crime). I frankly don't give a tinker's ^%$# whether you went to UCLA, Stanford, UF, Tufts, Penn State, Emory, or University of Wisconsin--Madison.
  • esimpnoxinesimpnoxin Registered User Posts: 182 Junior Member
    Not necessarily, ExpendableAsset. While CC grads could potentially make a lot of money, those who go to top colleges do tend to make quite a bit more money, on average.
This discussion has been closed.