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Financial Aid Unfair? psh, It's Absurd!

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Replies to: Financial Aid Unfair? psh, It's Absurd!

  • sylvan8798sylvan8798 Registered User Posts: 5,957 Senior Member
    tipa891 wrote:
    No, it would fatten faculty wallets while leaving me 240k in debt (which is also probably an impossible amount of money to get I might add, private loan companies aren't stupid either), which would be a very stupid reason to give up college btw
    Um, the aid money students don't accept doesn't go to the faculty instead. It doesn't add credence to your argument that you think schools should raid the faculty pay to give student MORE aid. Your friend who has to take loans should be able to get through debt free on the backs of the faculty?
  • ExieMITAlumExieMITAlum . Posts: 2,367 Senior Member
    There are plenty of colleges - including those that are well known, that make the tuition free for parents under a certain amount (middle class) and sliding scale above that. Unfortunately, it has also caused their application rates to rise astronomically.

    Here's the deal - the money in a college grant doesn't come out of thin air. It comes from parent donations, alumni donations, corporate sponsorships and other sources. It's a gift, not a divine right. So complaining that the grant was not high enough is the same as saying "someone else" should make a sacrifice to pay for your child to go to school.

    "Meeting" 100% of need does not mean providing a scholarship. It often means providing some aid and filling the balance with loans.

    Some students go to community college for several years and transfer. Others choose lesser known (but still good) schools where the tuition is manageable. Still others defer in order to work and earn money (least attractive option given low pay rates at jobs for the unskilled).

    Those are the options - and research into any of the colleges beforehand would have revealed the typical expected net cost after scholarships and student loans are deducted. For many students, you'd be surprised at how high that figure is even for low income families.
  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse Registered User Posts: 26,432 Senior Member
    It's unfair, very unfair to that segment of students whose parents can't or won't pay but those parents have the financials so that the students do not qualify for financial aid. Even the most generous schools will not cover costs for such kids. What they have to do is look for schools that will give a full ride or close to it or live at home and commute. Sometimes in such families, however, the home life is not a good one with stresses and issues. Also finding those full rides is still like buying lottery tickets. They are becoming increasingly scarcer too, and for an 18 year who is new to all of this to understand what has to be done to get that ride is overwhelming. It usually takes a year to get that reality check as we are seeing with some posts here where kids are getting into schools they wanted, and finding out that they are not entitled to any aid, and their parents can't come up with the money either. When you live in a middle/upper middle class home and the final word is that you can't afford your state flagship because the parents have absolutely zero that they can or will contribute, that's when the realization hits that North East Hamadouda State that gives out some free rides is where you have to start looking.
  • Wolverine86Wolverine86 Registered User Posts: 2,196 Senior Member
    ^Southwest Hamadouda State is a much better school. It's ranked 2 spots higher in the USNWR rankings and the Fighting Fluffy Bunny football team kicks butt!!
  • O21234O21234 Registered User Posts: 28 New Member
    Why do you think poor students get free education?

    There is a maximum of PELL grant students can get no matter how poor they are. This forces the poor student to take on the loans, work and pay on those loans for many years after they graduate.

    Poor students dont receive free education. Free education doesnt exist.
  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse Registered User Posts: 26,432 Senior Member
    Because some do, 021234. I know some who do. They can get PELL and here in NY , TAP and if they commute and go to a local school, it is possible not to pay out of pocket.

    It is also possible to get an award that is full ride with little or no payments needed from schools that guarantee to meet full need. Some schools have a no loan policy for anyone or for those below a certain income or other bracket. So, yes, there are some who do get a free education, and some them do meet the definition of poor. Free education does exist.

    But nowhere as much as some think it does.
  • mitchklongmitchklong Registered User Posts: 813 Member
    My chief complaint of the EFC is they way they treat IRAs. Any contribution you make is added back in. You can shelter your retirement money from taxes but not from your college.

    Twenty years ago most people wouldnt think about using their retirement money to pay for college. Now I think almost everyone does it. This makes me sad must stop typing.
  • O21234O21234 Registered User Posts: 28 New Member
    All I know is that I qualified for maximum PELL and still didnt cover all the cost in VA. Someone else I know that lives in VA also qualifies for maximum grant and chose cheaper school but still has to pay for all books, any summer classes and might take on a loan when they transfer for a BA.

    Then I know someone else leaves in FL and her parents paid for one year of her college and kids daycare, next year she applied for financial aid and grants cover the rest.

    So yeah I guess she gets a free ride... But why did she get a free ride? Because her parents are wealthy enough to pay for half!

    The OP wants to say that FA isnt fair to upper middle... How is this fair to low income?

    My main point is that FA for poor students does not always equal free education. A lot of times it equals the student owing large amounts of money in loans and their parents cant afford to spend a dime on the students education.

    I only hope that people that make 100k or more a year are wise enough to budget.

    I would feel like I won the lottery if I made 100k a year.
  • O21234O21234 Registered User Posts: 28 New Member
    If your making 100k a year then you can pay you just dont want to.
  • tipa891tipa891 Registered User Posts: 351 Member
    ^I'm referring to the Financial aid at top private institutions, not others. I'm poor and don't have to pay a dime to attend several top tear universities of my choice, and the ones that didn't offer a completely free ride I don't have to pay much, and there were way more scholarships that I qualified for because I was poor than my friend did, some of which I'll probably get, meaning my cost to even more schools will be zero.

    I understand the situation is different at different schools that I don't know too much about. The entire point of the rant was directed at the picture many top universities paint that they will make education affordable to all students who choose to attend. I don't think it's crazy that my friends have to acquire debt, I think it's crazy the amount of debt they're expected to take on after the schools say "They don't want cost to be a deterrent from matriculating". Their parents aren't willing to pay nothing, they just only pay for a fraction of the costs, and the students still have to take on 100k plus debt for their four years, which is around ten times the institutional average in debt most of their students take out according to their reports.

    if that's the average, why do I find so many kids in this situation? I feel as though we've been repeatedly lied to.
  • O21234O21234 Registered User Posts: 28 New Member
    I honestly think something needs to be done about tbe actual cost of college. Im seeing tuition rates steadily increase. Classes at the school im going to have raised the cost of classes at least $250 since I started. If this continues, will anyone other than the wealthy be able to go?

    The cost of tuition is getting out of control.

    Maybe tuition in VA is high compared to other states but I pay in state because I have lived here since I was born and if I moved then id have to pay out of state.
  • Wolverine86Wolverine86 Registered User Posts: 2,196 Senior Member
    tipa891...The problem is too many people refuse to see these universities as anything other than "wonderful places of education that will help my little snowflake learn and grow". They're not...they're businesses offering a product, and as such they have glossy brochures and a great sales pitch to try and convince you to buy their product. And many of them are just as slimy as the worst used car salesman. But that doesn't mean the buyer (parents/student/whomever) doesn't bear just as much responsibility as the seller.

    How on God's green earth do people enter into a process as important as the education of their children without doing their due diligence in researching the schools before applying? If people are so gullible that they hear "They don't want cost to be a deterrent from matriculating" and somehow translate that into "They'll give my little snowflake more than enough to attend" then those people are just the suckers these schools are looking for. As a minimum they'll get your $60-$80 application fee before giving a unworkable FA offer (that these families should've anticipated in the first place). To make it worse, too many of these families (still ignoring reality after the FA offer kicks them in the teeth) make yet another foolish and irresponsible decision to take out unmanageable amounts of loans to keep the "dream school" alive.

    If a middle class family wants to apply to a few elite "reach" schools, by all means do so. But if they are not in a position to pay AT LEAST their FAFSA EFC (probably more since the schools compute their own EFC and student contributions) exactly why would they be so foolish as to waste their time, money, and emotional investment into something that they should've known wasn't going to pan out?

    These elite schools do make it affordable for all students to attend...it's just that their definition of "affordable" differs greatly from yours. You call it lies...they call it salesmanship. If this offends you so greatly, you'd better prepare yourself for a lifetime of being offended by every major financial transaction that occurs from here on out; cars, houses...you name it. The difference is, not everyone is gullible enough to fall for it. If you want to be incensed at the schools...have at it. You can think of these people as "victims", I'll choose to call them willing albeit uninformed and naive participants.

    To paraphrase a line from Animal House..."You screwed up...you trusted us". You just never know where you'll find true pearls of wisdom.
  • emeraldkity4emeraldkity4 Registered User Posts: 35,861 Senior Member
    What I don't understand is, where are these children leading such an idyllic life that they are surprised, no stunned when presented with evidence that indicates " life is not fair "? :confused:
    It was never meant to be fair, it is not designed to be fair. Complaining about " life isnt fair" is like complaining that grass isnt orange!.

    Living in this country, in this age, is like hitting the lottery.
    Too bad some don't appreciate it.
  • AliT0173AliT0173 Registered User Posts: 23 New Member
    I get the whole "life isn't fair, so deal with it" concept. It's something we've always talked about as a family. Here's the problem: I was raised in a very low-income home and understand where some of the comments come from. That being said $100,000 is not wealthy. Taxes for a $100,000/year family are astronomical, so what that family actually has available to spend is FAR less than that. There is no way to put two kids through school with a 7.9% parent-plus loan at twice your EFC on each child and still be financially responsible. And when those kids who have been told to work hard, keep their grades high, take AP/Honors courses, extracurricular activities, volunteer, and keep a job in hopes of getting merit aid only to find out that the most needy get the merit aid first so chances are you may get a few thousand dollars or none at all, they have every right to be frustrated and disappointed.
  • NotYourBusinessNotYourBusiness User Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 160 Junior Member
    AliT0173,

    I am in a clarification campaign here. When you reach the point that "you may get a few thousand dollars or none at all", you are not getting anything. Whit a few exceptions, when you reach this point:
    * You fully paid your dues.
    * You helped to subsidise the finaid of other folks (at some schools, your payments are subsidising around 30% of a low-EFC recipient finaid).

    The same way that when the government gives you a tax deduction, you did not get a *free gift* from the government. The government is just returning back to you some of the excess that they collected.
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