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Should Harvard disclose the quota of International applicants pool?

harvard2018harvard2018 18 replies1 postsRegistered User New Member
edited December 2013 in Harvard University
As T26E4 said:

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"All international applicants face the toughest odds, especially with the great Fin Aid that Harvard offers. Your scenario should not be mixed with the perceived anti Asian bias against US asian applicants.

No international applicant should enter applying to HYP with any expectation of accept. All top schools have a quota for international admits. Applicants from Korea, India/Pakistan and China are at all time highs. Thus, they face the highest odds, bar none.

Your "unhook" is not that you're Asian. Your "unhook" is because you don't have US citizenship or permanent residence and are applying from a country that is innundating top US colleges with qualified applicants."
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If it is true that HYP does have a quota for International applicants, it should be disclosed just for fairness of giving international applicants the statistics for them to make proper judgement before they choose HYP as their Early Action choices. For them to choose HYP as their first choices, they have given up their higher chances to be admitted by other top schools. Sure, they all know it is harder to be admitted by HYP than some of other top schools, but if they knew there were only 83 spots as a quota for 1000 international applicants, they might not choose Harvard as their first choice at all. Besides, the 83 spots must also include some special “reserved seats” for political and global economic reasons, understandable, but this should be disclosed, just to be fair for those “regular” international applicants to make their reasonable decision. By the way, does anyone know how many international applicants applied in this year’s REA or last years’ REA and Regular? There was 11.1% internationals of the admitted students last year, but how many were the international applicants? Is the same 21% of this year's REA rate for the international applicants? Or it’s only 2.1% international admission rate?
edited December 2013
78 replies
Post edited by harvard2018 on
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Replies to: Should Harvard disclose the quota of International applicants pool?

  • Momom77Momom77 274 replies6 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    I get you are disappointed but I believe the percentages change slightly each year to facilitate a diverse school body.therefore until they see applicants they may not totally be sure of applicants. Everyone trying for an upper tier college, intl or not, is aware of these ever changing guidelines and benchmarks. You are feeling what a lot of other people are feeling this week. It's totally unfortunate and there are plenty in the same boat as you. Good luck with your next choice and realize sometimes things work out for the best.
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  • T26E4T26E4 23243 replies1031 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    "but if they knew there were only 83 spots as a quota for 1000 international applicants, they might not choose Harvard as their first choice at all. "

    But the problem is neither the applicants nor Harvard knows how many Internationals will apply. You can discover the approx quota and seats per Freshman class (you said 11.1%). You can look at past years' numbers as well. This isn't a hidden number.


    But what is the aggregate # of international applicants this year? next year? Five years from now? Without that number, you're still shooting in the dark -- and Harvard doesn't know that either.
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  • harvard2018harvard2018 18 replies1 postsRegistered User New Member
    ^@T26E4, Yes, you are right, without knowing the # of international applicants, they are still shooting in the dark. But Harvard should know and should disclose the past years' # of International applicants. MIT did tell the international applicants' admission rate, it was only 2.6% (115 of 4363) but not the overall rate 8.2% last year. Look at this lower international admission rate, is it because of the non-competitive qualifications of the Int. applicants? or simply because there was a quota for Int. even though they are as good as the domestic applicants.

    Admissions Statistics | MIT Admissions


    Sure, a smart international applicant should be able to figure this out that there could be only about 2% international admission rate for Harvard as long as they have looked at MIT's website before. But is Harvard really the same with MIT? Is there a reason for Harvard not telling the # of international applicants in the past like what MIT did?
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  • MeIsHMMeIsHM 308 replies8 postsRegistered User Member
    You need to also remember that some international applications are more likely to be admitted than others. Pakistani, Indian, Chinese and South Korean citizens have some of the lowest chances of acceptance. However, if you're someone from Syria --or elsewhere obscure-- with a unique story, you have a higher chance of getting acceptance.

    In the SCEA press release, Harvard spoke about three applicants with unique backgrounds (one was Iranian, one Syrian, the other I cannot remember). A big reason in their being accepted was that they weren't just another Chinese student, whom no-one will care about; these are students that Harvard can "brag" about, e.g. they have admitted someone from the Syrian crisis who can bring her experience to their institution.
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  • hurstianhurstian 8 replies0 postsRegistered User New Member
    AnnatheGreat
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  • harvard2018harvard2018 18 replies1 postsRegistered User New Member
    @MeIsHM, like what you said, by these "political" or "economical" reasons, the "regular" int. applications' chances are even lower, even further, if they are not a recruited athlete, their chance could be even lower than 2%, or 1%.

    Does this mean, if you are an international student, don't even think about to apply the HYP unless you are really, really "unique"!

    Is this true? who knows!
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  • smv1304smv1304 5 replies1 postsRegistered User New Member
    Clearly it is extremely difficult for an international applicant to gain admission to H, especially if you do not have a URM hook. Perhaps H should be upfront like MIT and only take early applications from US citizens? It might save a lot of heartache and anxiety for well qualified international applicants who can then focus on the March result date. I have been trying to search out any UK citizens who have been admitted early to H ......... no joy to date!
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  • wandilecosa13wandilecosa13 30 replies0 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    ^ Disagree..

    Being able to get in early often saves international applicants more stress.

    Many nations run on a different schedule. School in my country starts in Jan and ends in Dec. Had I not got in, I would have had to enroll in a local university in the hope of getting good news in March/April.. At which point I would have to 'drop out' having already paid up front for a year of education.

    Just having the possibility of early acceptance is a massive relief.
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  • harvardearlyharvardearly 9 replies0 postsRegistered User New Member
    On their website, Harvard states that there are no quotas for international students..clearly this is false!! My school is one of the best in the UK, and yet we haven't had anyone go to Harvard in 7 years!

    On the MIT website it clearly states that they will only accept about 150 international applicants- I think that Harvard should do the same.
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  • harvardearlyharvardearly 9 replies0 postsRegistered User New Member
    @smv1304 I think the problem may also lie in how the applications are done: most schools aren't familiar with the US system, so they do not receive an adequate preparation. Teacher references are also probably not done correctly- most teachers are only familiar with the UCAS system, which is very different to the Common App.
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  • smv1304smv1304 5 replies1 postsRegistered User New Member
    Although H do not provide detailed stats re. where applicants come from they do provide detail on where admitted students have come from. Rankings read Canada, UK, China. This crudely translates to about 15 UK admits per year. So not surprising that we have not heard of any UK candidates being admitted early! I guess H is hedging its bets to see whether the regular applicants are any stronger?!?
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  • Momom77Momom77 274 replies6 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    Overall the acceptance rate at Harvard is 6%. That is extremely selective so as an international you were aware of that. 992 were selected for early admission. It is the dream of many and many are disappointed. This info is on their website. I'm sorry you are disappointed but can it be you did not fully fanthom the odds. I mean to be one out of 992 is very selective whether they report how many are from the uk or not. Until they receive their applications they can not make assumptions of where those qualified are coming from. Each applicant who tried feels they had a chance. Your time would best be used selecting a backup college at this point and moving forward. I understand you are upset but beating the drum on this point is doing you no good. Plenty of prestigious schools in the us and abroad have not had a graduate placed at Harvard. You are in the same boat as very many but the others appear to have recognized the odds.
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  • texaspgtexaspg 16488 replies340 postsForum Champion Pre-Med & Medical Forum Champion
    Harvard accepts about 10% international students each year or around 180+ with a goal to maintain 10% overall population. The internationals are not admitted as 10% but 10% of expected students because their International yield will be along the lines of 95% as opposed to overall 82% or so.

    There is no requirement for Harvard to do exactly 10% during SCEA. They will receive plenty of great candidates during RD.

    Edit

    Per 2017 announcement, internationals are at 11.1% of the incoming class or roughly 185 students.

    http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/05/harvard-class-of-17-yield-reaches-82-percent

    If Harvard did not have a goal of diversity, then they probably don't need to admit any internationals. The number of applicants applying internationally is not relevant although it might be an interesting statistic. People are not admitted as a percentage of applicants but as a percentage of overall class. So if 30,000 internationals apply, only 190+ students will be accepted out of them.
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  • SuperN0vaSuperN0va 138 replies11 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    Stop whining about how unfair it is for the internationals. Statistics wouldn't help you much, because all they would show is that it is practically impossible (as it should be) to get in as an international student. HYP are American colleges receiving federal money (which is revenue taxed from the American people), and their first priority ought to be (although it seems it isn't) serving American students.

    The fact that Harvard takes like 13% of students from other countries is way to generous to start with (IMO, should be more like 2-5%)
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  • T26E4T26E4 23243 replies1031 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    supernova: I didn't sense any of the foreign posters were complaining or demanding more allocated slots. They just wanted to know what the true chances really were as to even apply or not. Caveat emptor.

    It's also patently clear that Harvard does not want generations of students w/o foreign exposure and interaction, thus their stated goals of ~ 10% internationals. Your contentment with 2-5% veers greatly with Harvard's. I wouldn't want my kids to attend a supposedly great institution w/that small a percentage of international classmates.
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  • SuperN0vaSuperN0va 138 replies11 postsRegistered User Junior Member
    Maybe international students add to campus life, but they can go to college in their own countries. We Americans can't go to college in theirs because it's way too expensive. Do you know of any colleges outside the US that give money like HYP to American students? If so, then I'd say it's fair.

    Sorry if no one was complaining, I might not have read carefully :D
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  • T26E4T26E4 23243 replies1031 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    What's fairness have to do with it? H sits on the world's biggest university endowment. As a windfall of this money, they opt to seek out the planet's best of the best of the best. And they plop them down next to you in the dining hall, and you can ask him or her to pass the ketchup, among other things.

    Fairness? When one speaks of unis like H, fairness has nothing to do with it. Their resources allow them unimaginable programs and plans.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 33113 replies358 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    Folks tend to put too much stock into the word "quota" which, imo, suggests fixed limits. You get x thousand apps from around the world and review each one. Even with the differences in school schedules, courses, standards and activities, it's a huge, relatively uniform group of high performing applicants. Add to that, the school's desire for the same sort of geographic diversity that applies to US kids. Maybe this one is the first in ages from her country or region. Maybe that one knocked himself out to get past hurdles. There is no one way to predict. When you say "quotas," it implies something more rigid than exists.

    Right, it's not about fair. It's about the U's needs/wants and how they choose to meet that. Results vary depending on circumstances, numbers of applicants from where, their interests, individual strengths and potential.
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  • harvard2018harvard2018 18 replies1 postsRegistered User New Member
    ^^^@T26E4, you are right! No one is complaining about the # of slots for internationals. It is always fair for Harvard to decide whatever they want to do with the admission process. “Caveat Emptor" is exactly the meaning of this discussion.

    CC is extremely helpful for the applicants around the world, because it provides a lot of information to help them to make their proper judgments and decisions. The more feedback/complaints/comments from the CC members, the more accurate information could be provided here. Does anyone disagree with what gibby and T26E4 have contributed here are extremely helpful?

    @Momom77, this discussion is not only about venting out the “upset” feeling from the disappointed applicants, it is mainly for telling others about a lesson learned from their disappointment. The life goes on, they do understand about it, but they may just want to help other ones who come after them.

    The international applicants might have looked at the CC admitted stats, and they felt that their own stats were in the admitted range, and they applied as REA while giving up other chances. But, the majority of CC stats are from domestic’s students, the international applicants may need much stronger stats if there really is a quota for international applicants.

    Harvard may not want to release the previous years’ number of international applicants, because if there were some surprise numbers to show that the international admission rate was 2% but not 21%, it could discourage a lot of internationals to apply in the future.

    I personally respect what MIT did, they clearly tell the world, their last year’s general admission rate is 8.15% (1,548 of 18,989), but the US student rate is 9.8% (1,433 of 14,626) and international student admission rate is only 2.64% (115 of 4,363).
    Admissions Statistics | MIT Admissions

    Again, don’t take this wrong, no one is complaining about the more or less slots here, just thinking about that the more transparent information could be more helpful.

    Understandable, Harvard must have her own reasons to do whatever it’s appropriate for the benefit of the school, the country, and the world! We trust her! We all love Harvard, it doesn't matter what has happened, she is still in our dream. The dream could come true, or it could just be a dream forever, but this dream is always beautiful!
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 33113 replies358 postsRegistered User Senior Member
    I have to say, if you can't figure out that Harvard is monstrously difficult to get into, more specific stats won't help. As it is, we have kids who play the "Yeah, but maybe I'll one of those 5 or 6 or 8%" game.

    ps. In January 2012 they reported this, suggesting over 6k applicants:

    "One change worth noting, however, is the modest (5 percent) increase in the international pool, compared with a 20 percent increase last year (from 5,006 to 6,014)." http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/01/applications-to-harvard-college-stabilize/
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