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Comments on this 2nd semester freshman Kelley schedule?

stbemtpyneststbemtpynest Registered User Posts: 371 Member
I love all of the great advice given on this forum, which is why I'm coming to you for more advice! I've been giving my freshman daughter unsolicited advice on her 2nd semester schedule, and I'd like to get some feedback from experienced students and parents on whether or not the advice is good.

Right now she has some pretty big goals - Finance major with Technology Management co-major and Spanish minor and hoping for Business Honors. She wants to take a light load 2nd semester (13 hours) because she's hoping to join a sorority and she wants free time to work on the Business Honors app. But I'm advising her to register for 16 hours now, and drop a class within the drop period if it seems too much to handle. By the drop date she will know if she'll be pledging a sorority and have at least a gut feel for the workload. Good advice or bad?

Here's her schedule right now, where she followed my advice:
BUS-A 201 Financial Accounting, BUS-C 104 Business Presentations, BUS-X 202 Technology Honors, MATH-M 118 Finite, HISP-S 326 Hispanic Linguistics, BUS-T 144 Kelley LLC Hot Topics (1 hour class 2nd 8 weeks). The class she would most likely drop if the workload is too high is BUS-A 201, as I talked her into that one in the first place. My reasoning is that accounting will still be fresh in her mind from BUS-A 100 (aced it) and then she can take BUS-A 202 1st semester sophomore year and be done with the basic accy classes which are prereqs for a bunch of finance classes, giving her a lot more flexibility in scheduling her next 3 years. Good advice or bad?

She's also on a wait list for BUS-D 270 Global Business Environments which is a 1.5 hour class that meets the 1st 8 weeks. If she gets off the wait list, she plans to drop BUS-A 201. She likes this because it balances out the 2nd 8 week BUS-T 144 class and her first class on MW would be 11:15 instead of 9AM. :) But I'm advising against it for the reasons I mentioned above about taking BUS-A 201 freshman year and also because it seems like students should take BUS-D 270 and BUS-D 271 Global Business Analysis (another 1.5 hour 8-week class) in the same semester. Good advice or bad?

By the way, she's taking Microeconomics summer 2014 as an online course at our local CC, based on the great advice given on this forum. I know there has been lots of advice to avoid Finite at IU too, but she won't be able to fit in two summer school classes.
Post edited by stbemtpynest on

Replies to: Comments on this 2nd semester freshman Kelley schedule?

  • 33dmjjm33dmjjm Registered User Posts: 375 Member
    All I can say is wow...you sure know a lot about your daughter's schedule. I get the possibility of discussing what classes sound good but you need to let your daughter spread her wings and make her own decisions. She obviously is very smart and I have no doubt she will figure out what schedule is best for her.
  • stbemtpyneststbemtpynest Registered User Posts: 371 Member
    I know, and I totally deserve that scolding 33dmjjm! You are 100% right - she should be making these decisions on her own and is perfectly capable. That's why now that she changed her schedule based on my "gentle suggestions", I'm hoping I did the right thing. It will be on me if she hates how she changed her schedule. I've just always loved playing with the puzzle pieces of course scheduling, looking at the exciting menu of available classes, and I can't help myself from playing around with her schedule and suggesting changes. Plus I was genuinely concerned that she may not be able to graduate in 4 years with her goals and the way she planned her freshman year. Now THAT is important to me, as we've only budgeted for 4 years of college ;)
  • bigbookloverbigbooklover Registered User Posts: 550 Member
    If she aced BUS-A 100 she is off to a great start!
  • ace550ace550 Registered User Posts: 1,126 Senior Member
    While it is true that students should make the call on course selection, parent's input could be valuable. It is especially true for students aiming for multiple majors and minors. Starting last year, Kelley had added T175, T275, T375, L375, J375, D270, and D271. This is almost like one semester worth of courses. If your registration date is late, you will have a lot of problems of not being able to take certain sessions or get certain professors. Kelley students need to start a business related internship the summer after sophomore year. So, there is not a lot of room for adjusting courses down the road (by taking summer classes) to finish your intended degrees in four years.

    I do think that OP's D can take M118 and E201 through Ivytech online course offering during summer of 2014. In the meantime, pairing up D270 and D271 would be nice. This is already 14.5-15 credits and should look solid as a business honors applicant. I am not sure about the effect of "W" on the business honors application though.
  • bthomp1bthomp1 Registered User Posts: 1,530 Senior Member
    That 16 credits is a pretty heavy load for someone who is trying to get into business honors. I know a lot of potential business honors students come in with many AP and other credits and are therefore able to take light full-time loads freshman year in order to concentrate heavily on extra curriculars. EC's are very important to distinguish applicants from the rest of the applicant pool -- all of which are going to have high GPAs.

    Just taking C104 and X202 the same semester will be a heavy drain on your daughter's ability to have the time to do ECs, as both classes require a lot of group work. Finite can be very tough and time consuming for many students who are good at math but find finite difficult; the foreign language class will take lots of time. I think 16 credits would be too much to do for someone trying to have strong ECs for business honors application.

    Re financial accounting: my son took honors A201 (A205) financial accounting spring semester of freshman year. A lot of his classmates were in business honors, but were sophomores. Some told him they avoided A201/A205 until after getting accepted to business honors, as intro financial accounting requires a lot of study and grading can be tough, too. They avoided the chance of getting a low grade in A201 and risking not getting into business honors.

    I agree with Ace that a "W" would not look good on a business honors application.

    Also agree with Ace that summer school can be a huge help getting rid of Icore prerequisites. I know a former Kelley honors student who used to post here with great insight that graduated last year and works in investment banking now posted that he took 21 credits the summer after freshman year-- five at IU and 16 in an eight-week session at a CC near his home. Of course, only a solid C was required for the CC credits to transfer to IU. He took both A201 and A202 at CC that summer. This is an extreme example of using summer classes, but it allowed him to take only 12 or so credits at IU each semester. My son did 19 summer credits in order to graduate in four years and obtain the 150 credits required to sit for the cpa exam.

    Summer after freshman year is a good time to load up on some easy CC credits, especially if you are aiming for business honors and get accepted. If you are accepted to Kelley honors, there is very little chance that you won't get an excellent internship during the summer after sophomore year, in which case you will not have time to do summer CC classes because of the demands of the internship.

    Also re accounting;
    "My reasoning is that accounting will still be fresh in her mind from BUS-A 100 (aced it) and then she can take BUS-A 202 1st semester sophomore year and be done with the basic accy classes which are prereqs for a bunch of finance classes, giving her a lot more flexibility in scheduling her next 3 years. Good advice or bad?"

    Last I checked, and I am too lazy to look it up , Icore finance class was the big prerequisite for taking upper-level finance classes, so the A201 and A202 alone won't get you into any upper level finance classes. You need Icore for practically all of them (not the sophomore intro investment banking class, though, which does not count toward finance major requirements), I think, except for G345, which you need to have taken microeconomics as a prerequisite.
  • bthomp1bthomp1 Registered User Posts: 1,530 Senior Member
    Forgot to mention that you also need macroecon E202 to be able to take G345, a class which can be applied to the upper-level finance requirements. To the larger point, though, A201 and A202 won't get you into upper-level finance classes unless you have also taken Icore finance component F370.
  • ace550ace550 Registered User Posts: 1,126 Senior Member

    I think that your D knows quite well what she needs to do. If she can take care of A311, G345, and K315 before I-core, she would be in great shape to confirm her career goal. That is very beneficial for most Kelley students when they register classes for the 6th semester.


    I know who you are talking about. He is a great role model for my two boys in Kelley.

    Tech Management co-major (requiring only four courses) and finance is a popular combination. DS2 (a junior) is aiming for finance/accounting/tech management co-major. He will make the necessary adjustment based upon his internship experience this coming summer. If he wants to get all three majors, he will have to stay during the summer after senior year to finish the course work. It is becoming almost impossible for current sophomores and freshmen to do the same with all the additional courses added last year.
  • bthomp1bthomp1 Registered User Posts: 1,530 Senior Member
    Ace, I agree that A311 before Icore is great for setting up the last two years at Kelley for finance and accounting and the tech management majors. I just think that A201 the second semester at IU is an unnecessary grade risk and a lot of work for someone trying to get into honors when ECs are so important. And there really is no downside to taking A201 (and even A202) in summer at a CC for a direct admit. A201 and A202 will cover the same course material at a CC as at Kelley, often using the same textbook. Once you get into honors, it won't matter for internship purposes where you took the intro accounting classes or any other Icore prerequisites.

    I know the former poster that took A201 and A202 at his local CC summer after freshman year actually took A311, A312, A325 cost accounting, and A329 tax during his sophomore year at Kelley. So he was practically finished with the accounting major before even taking Icore and starting the Kelley finance major! Pretty sure he took ECON E305 sophomore year, too; that class will substitute for G345 as an upper level finance requirement, but G345 likely grades easier. It is actually possible to take all the accounting classes required for the accounting major (the three non-accounting supplemental classes might require Icore, though) before even taking Icore. A direct admit could take A201 and A202 at a CC the summer before freshman year at IU and have all the accounting upper level courses (except A337) finished before taking Icore.
  • stbemtpyneststbemtpynest Registered User Posts: 371 Member
    Thanks again for all the great advice! Unfortunately, I don't think that taking more than one course (Micro) online through CC this summer will be an option for my daughter. She will (hopefully) be working as a camp counselor, which is a 10-week job with very long exhausting days, so I just don't think it would be physically and mentally possible to take more than one summer class.

    I didn't realize that you have to drop a class within the first week in order to avoid a W on your transcript. That certainly changes things. She won't even know the sorority situation by then. I will make sure she is aware of that, because that could be a game-changer. For some reason I thought you had 2 weeks to drop a class with nothing showing up on the transcript.

    The other variable in all this is her wish to study abroad in Seville 2nd semester junior year. She has no idea what classes she'll be able to take there. I encouraged her to research that now, but she thinks it's too early. It drives this hovering mom crazy that I can't find that info online, so now is the time that I just need to LET IT GO and let her take care of things. (But if anyone has info on how many/which requirements you can generally fill during a study abroad, or links to online info that I may have missed, please share :D )
  • hkem123hkem123 Registered User Posts: 714 Member
    I think a lot of times when discussing the relative difficulty of Kelley courses, people forget the most important factor is the person actually taking the class. Getting ahead in coursework early on has a lot advantages, but the advantage disappears if the GPA suffers.

    A201 is a challenging class...for some people. I got through A100, A201, A202 (CC), and A311 with all A's before I-core because my preferred study technique (working out a lot problems) works well in accounting courses. I also got an A- in Folk-F 101 though. The average GPA in that class was a 3.54 (compared to a 2.6 in my A311 class).

    I have a friend in each of the consulting and investment management workshops who had to retake A201 because they did so poorly in it the first time. They both have obviously been extremely successful in other classes to get accepted to their respective workshops.

    A201 might be a risky course to take for your daughter, or it may be a good way for her to get ahead in her coursework. A201 is a class that has more complex problems than A100, but you're given more practice problems than you could possibly work through, and the exams will look very similar to the practice problems provided.
  • ace550ace550 Registered User Posts: 1,126 Senior Member

    Some are Greek to me. ;)

    Study abroad complicates things. DS3 will be going to LSE in summer of 2015. The courses for 2014 summer seem interesting. The bad part is that he can only use them to satisfy the two WC courses due to the I-core requirement. Thus, some risk taking is necessary. Since OP's D aced A100, she should have a good handle on A201. In that case, the only remaining issue is M118. She can take M118 in the 3rd semester at IUB or through Ivytech on-line course offering. Then, she can take Econ E370 or Math K310 in the 4th semester. In the worst case, she may have to take L201 through Ivytech during the summer before I-core. But, I think students are only allowed to take two on-line courses.

    Due to the new curriculum, some Kelley students will have to plan carefully. On one hand, they have to take as many courses as possible based upon their ability. On the other hand, they should still take advantage of the best courses such as Professor Perry's L293 if possible. That makes it quite challenging to cover multiple majors, minors, study abroad, internship, various EC's, and pursuit of fraternity/sorority.

    DS3 told me that T175 was not beneficial for him other than the grade. That is why I think Kelley should pare down (8 weeks each for T175/T275) and offer sufficient sessions for D270/D271 so that students can take them in pairs.
  • CarolynmamaCarolynmama Registered User Posts: 29 New Member
    " I know there has been lots of advice to avoid Finite at IU too, but she won't be able to fit in two summer school classes. "
    Would you please explain? My S is registered for this course Spring 14.
  • ace550ace550 Registered User Posts: 1,126 Senior Member

    The following link shows that the average grade for M118 is C or C-.

    Grade Distribution Database: Office of the Registrar: Indiana University Bloomington

    I believe that students with SAT math >700 or with AP Calc AB credits should have no problem of getting a grade >= B in M118. But, they will have to make some effort. C104, X201, A201 are time consuming courses and that is why it is a good idea to delay M118 for those who are aiming for Kelley or Kelley honors. For those of us around this board for a while, it is very sad seeing some very bright students taking risky math courses and not being able to get into Kelley.
  • vikingplyrvikingplyr Registered User Posts: 51 Junior Member
    To give you all some recent feedback about M118, the median score on the final exam was 23/33 in Professor McKinley's class for the Fall 2013 semester.
  • ace550ace550 Registered User Posts: 1,126 Senior Member
    Steve*McKinley at Indiana University Bloomington - RateMyProfessors.com


    You are lucky to have a professor like him. Still, 23/33 is a "C- to D+" without the curve. Some sessions had "average GPA -1 = CLS GPA". Only 2-3 students got A- and above. I would not want my boys in those classes if there are other options.
This discussion has been closed.