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EA Ivy vs ED other top 20 colleges

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Replies to: EA Ivy vs ED other top 20 colleges

  • roycroftmomroycroftmom 2676 replies36 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,712 Senior Member
    Yes, Harvard has claimed that for years. Unfortunately, it appears from the current litigation that such a claim was not accurate. I understand the evidence shows, controlling for all other factors, a substantial advantage to applying early there, even for the unhooked.
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  • BKSquaredBKSquared 1175 replies4 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,179 Senior Member
    I agree with @CU123, apply EA, SCEA or ED to your top choice school with the following caveats.

    I would hesitate to apply ED anywhere if financial aid is a major factor.

    You should only apply SCEA to HYPS as an unhooked applicant if you are truly a competitive applicant (top 5%, test scores solidly above median). If you are such a competitive applicant, a generally applicable strategy is to apply SCEA to one of those schools and apply early to highly regarded rolling admissions schools, typically honors programs in state flagships, typically in state.

    If you fall below that competitive level (say you are only top 10% or your scores are in the low to mid 1400's), I would look EA to the next level of schools in terms of selectivity as well as the rolling admissions schools mentioned above. The goal is to try to get into a high match before December 31 so you can cull the list of RD applications and maybe get some data on how strong your application really is based on the first batch of applications submitted. Are you shooting too high or are you where you think you are based on acceptances, rejections and deferrals.
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  • cptofthehousecptofthehouse 28056 replies56 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 28,112 Senior Member
    EA is not just to get a leg up on admissions at the selective schools. It’s ideal to get those likely schools, the ones sure to take you and that you can afford on an EA or early rolling basis, so you can breathe easily and apply to wherever you please without danger of being shut out.

    It’s also s huge slap in the face, regardless of the fact that you are in very good company, overwhelmingly big company of those not accepted to those highly selected EA schools, so that it does make you feel a bit better just to have a school in your pocket, maybe even with merit money or prospects of it by year end.

    Early Action can also be a litmus year as to where you stand. You got into School A with a scholarship, B in the honors program without money in hand but a possibility later, C full pay and WL at D, a highly selective school. You can shape the rest of your list accordingly with the your other choices, if you care to do so. Or just buy those lottery tickets for RD.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 32224 replies336 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 32,560 Senior Member
    Look, no one has a better shot with ED or other Early apps, if they are not fully the candidates the college is looking for. No boost just for applying early and promising to attend. You need to match in the right ways, to the max, and not play the crapshoot game. Take the time to self assess how you match what they want. Not just what you want. Not just stats and some titles.
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  • 2manycollegequestions4me2manycollegequestions4me 176 replies24 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 200 Junior Member
    edited June 4
    Deleted
    edited June 4
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  • collegemom9collegemom9 704 replies22 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 726 Member
    @socaldad2002 I’m sorry but I would argue that the RD pool at Duke is actually more competitive than the ED pool as it consists of all the kids who were rejected from Ivies and their top choices as is the case with most of the top 20. ED even unhooked is your best shot at Duke.
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  • socaldad2002socaldad2002 1082 replies22 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,104 Senior Member
    @collegemom9 Again, I have not seen any real data to draw a formal conclusion but you need to remember that because the yield is a lot lower in RD, they need to accept many more kids to round out their class as many will choose to go elsewhere after R&D decisions.

    The bottom line for me is that for the "average excellent unhooked kid", ED is more in line with RD acceptance rates for most top colleges. It is what it is...
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  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk 2233 replies4 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,237 Senior Member
    "Look, no one has a better shot with ED or other Early apps,:"

    I think they definitely do, the Harvard data is pretty convincing on the advantage of SCEA. It's not going to make an uncompetitive applicant get in, but if you're a hyps caliber applicant, you should seriously consider scea at harvard, the other three you can't definitively tell because their data is not public like Havard's is. You do yourself a disservice if you don't pay attention to the analysis coming out of the Harvard case.

    The bottom line for me is that for the "average excellent unhooked kid", ED is more in line with RD acceptance rates for most top colleges.

    For Duke, the ED acceptance is 21%, the RD is 6%, I know that you have athletes, urms, legacies etc but 21 to 6 is not a rounding error. And as collegemom9 says, you're competing in RD with the kids that got deferred by the ivies and similar colleges, in ED, it's just the Duke applicants. If you're an electrical engineering major and Duke is one of your top choices, do you apply ED or RD vs the kids that just missed the cut and got deferred by Stanford or MIT? Hint: go with Duke ED.
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  • lookingforwardlookingforward 32224 replies336 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 32,560 Senior Member
    edited June 5
    ^ The important point is, "if they are not fully the candidates the college is looking for." If you want EE and aren't among the stronger applicants, the various sorts of Early won't put any sheen on your app. That's the challenge for the kids and families: are you truly a strong candidate? More than stats, some titles or awards, etc.

    You're right that RD will pull in applicanats who didn't get into an Early cycle elsewhere. Plus kids also applying RD to S or MIT and using, say, Duke as a back-up. But for Early, you still need to be compelling, among the top kids applying, as the college sees it. Not just what you want.

    The focus on admit stats on many threads takes away from this awareness.
    edited June 5
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  • 1NJParent1NJParent 1017 replies27 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,044 Senior Member
    The question is not whether an unhooked applicant has a better shot at admission by applying early with a weak application that doesn't meet the standards of the school. If s/he submits the same strong application, does s/he have a better chance if s/he applies early? Many colleges say no, but evidences indicate otherwise (with a few exceptions such as MIT). We won't know for certain unless the colleges release more detailed data on the applicant pools. The colleges prefer you apply early to their colleges. But even if you didn't, they still want you to apply in RD. They want it both ways and the ambiguity helps them.
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  • homerdoghomerdog 4623 replies84 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 4,707 Senior Member
    Something that seems to be overlooked a lot is what is happening at one's high school. Which kids are applying to which schools. We are at a large public high school. Elite colleges can say all day that they don't have quotas but schools like Duke, Vandy, Wash U, Emory, NU, Chicago and Ivies seem to take about the same number each year. This year, for us, kids decided to use ED more and almost all of the spots for these schools from our high school were gone in ED. Four kids got into Duke ED (very very strong students) and then none RD. NU - five got in ED (out of 144) and one (ONE!) got in RD. The incoming juniors are noticing this and already trying to talk their parents into letting them use ED.

    Can't comment as much on Ivies since our Ivy spots are always early apps - athletes or legacies. No exceptions this year.
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 668 replies7 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 675 Member
    As mentioned several times above, ED is a chance to lock in early to the place you want to go. It is a luxury good that affluent families can attempt to purchase before the store opens to the general public.

    The trick to ED1 and ED2 is the ability to rank the schools you are interested in and live with the notion of "lost opportunities" or "what might have been".

    Funny enough this conversation came up last night at dinner.

    We have 2 children who have gone through the application process. I have toured Bowdoin 5 times. Maine has been a vacation spot for us for years, so we literally jump-started our eldest search early with a tour after Sophomore year....just to see what a college campus was like. Loved it (the kids liked it OK too). Junior year tour, interview visit....no application (ED I at another school).

    Our second child was down to Bowdoin and 2 other schools for ED I. Too hard to differentiate after Junior year visits, so we embarked on a 3 overnight tour (5 days) at the 3 schools. Bowdoin visit was great (including time with a high-school friend who was a freshman)....but eventually, the application was for a better fit elsewhere.

    Fast forward to dinner last night...."do you ever wonder how things would be if I went to Bowdoin"?

    No...was the answer. I never think about it, because it's not a decision that was ours to make. EDI at Bowdoin could have been a rejection, at which point EDII at another school might not have been successful.

    You have to make your decisions before the applications and accept the results from your strategy. That includes athletes, who litter these forums with their rejections after an "early read" or positive vibes from a coach. ED is asking someone to marry you. Thinking about who you might have married had you been single after that is pointless (unless you decide to get divorced and start over again....an option).
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 1834 replies23 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,857 Senior Member
    It is a luxury good that affluent families can attempt to purchase before the store opens to the general public.

    This is not necessarily true. If the school looks affordable per the NPC (with all the typical npc caveats) and it's the students #1 choice, and there is a bump for ED vs RD....I would encourage that student to apply, regardless of their SES standing.
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  • collegemom9collegemom9 704 replies22 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 726 Member
    @Mwfan1921 agreed 100%. This is what we did. If the numbers ended up varying from the NPC we could have just declined which really would have been no more disappointing then having to say no in the RD round. It all worked out and I'm so happy my son applied ED. One suggestion that was made to me was to print out the results of the NPC and hang on to them in case they were needed.
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 668 replies7 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 675 Member
    I agree with the notion that anyone should apply if they know their first choice of school, but the ability to invest the time and money to see the schools and meet the students is significant. Knowing where to apply ED is hard, and I imagine very difficult sight unseen.

    I also think it's VERY hard to commit to a financial commitment without knowing options. If you are running the NPC, then in the back of your head there have to be questions about ROI and options. Am I better off at school A for $20k or a free ride at school C? If you know you're paying retail for college and that your child is likely to gain admission to a place without merit money...it's dramatically different.

    ED without financial concern is much easier.
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