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Creating the List of Colleges


Replies to: Creating the List of Colleges

  • ClarinetDad16ClarinetDad16 Registered User Posts: 3,422 Senior Member
    The "brand" schools like NYU and USC for most will be expensive. For the top pick on an instrument that year they probably will go to bat and take care of you. The rest not so much.

    And the other point to keep in mind is the competition between undergrads vs grad students for performance opportunities. If it is a top program with superstar masters candidates - how much opportunity will that freshman get? Even as a sophomore same deal...
  • CompdadCompdad Registered User Posts: 470 Member
    For jazz UNT is a brand school. Oberlin provides merit aid in the form of Conservatory Dean Scholarships which vary in size and not dependent on the filing of any financial aid forms.
  • saintfansaintfan Registered User Posts: 8,274 Senior Member
    Now that I am not on my phone, I'll say that Temple has big academic merit that is indexed for out of state students. It goes up to full tuition plus summer stipend. My understanding is that they do not stack music merit but I could be wrong.
  • GoForthGoForth Registered User Posts: 714 Member
    Thanks for the great outpouring of thoughts.

    Keep in mind, if S gets a $25K scholarship on a $40K tuition, that would still be quite a stretch for us (where stretch = financial risk). I think some of the suggestions are of this kind.

    @ScreenName48105 - I envision the way gigging could start to de-luster. I think S will reach that point this year.

    @musicprnt - In my bringing this thread back to life and mentioning only of wanting a great peer group, a lot of typical preferences were not specified - such a big/small, urban,rural because they do not really matter compared to playing skills and networking - being able to graduate and get down to business. Eventhough his academics are good, he is not looking specifically for academic challenge, having given his schoolwork a fair shake during high school at the expense of playing time. Dual majors and the like are not sought after as well. It would be nice to limit the auditions a bit - none of us really know for sure which ones will be offers.

    The large presence of grad students hogging up the top spots at UNT is understood, but viewed as a realistic view of who you might run into in the real world. And those spots are something to shoot for anyway. And there will still be spots for undergrads in other ensembles and such. Reminiscent of ScreenName48105's note about the luster of gigging, I wonder if there is also the luster of being in a particular performance group - I mean, as long as you are learning and playing in situations at your level, maybe that is fine. You might not be seen at the big jazz gala, but what loss does that cause for you?

    As far as Temple, yes we have been thinking of that - a full tuition within 1 ACT point - well that is doable. And I could probably see a chain of schools between Chicago and New York as a nice cluster (Michigan, Oberlin, Hartt, Patterson, Berklee, SUNY, or some such) where they are chosen for financial safety or for having a fair chance at a great final offer from a great place.

  • ClarinetDad16ClarinetDad16 Registered User Posts: 3,422 Senior Member
    Did your son get a 31 on the ACT or as your other thread stated he was taking it in April and hope to get a 31?
  • GoForthGoForth Registered User Posts: 714 Member
    @ClarinetDad16 - S has not taken the ACT yet, but only the practice tests or whatever they do at school in advance of taking the test. It looks like Feb 6 is the real ACT test date.
  • ScreenName48105ScreenName48105 Registered User Posts: 517 Member
    Keep in mind, if S gets a $25K scholarship on a $40K tuition, that would still be quite a stretch for us (where stretch = financial risk). I think some of the suggestions are of this kind.
    I would suggest thinking in terms of "cost of attendance", not just tuition. Room and board averages around $15K among my son's schools.
  • drummergirldrummergirl Registered User Posts: 281 Junior Member
    I think that Oberlin will consider your son's academic focus - keep them on the list!
  • drummergirldrummergirl Registered User Posts: 281 Junior Member
    I realize this is from a somewhat limited perspective, but New School (jazz)was the only one that offered absolutely no merit money
  • jazzpianodadjazzpianodad Registered User Posts: 163 Junior Member
    @GoForth, you've mentioned a number of schools with good jazz programs that may be relative bargains, particularly with potential merit aid (e.g., UNT, DePaul, Temple, William Paterson, SUNY Purchase). Some others that might be worth checking out on that score include Columbia College and Roosevelt University in Chicago, UIUC, Western Michigan and UMKC (though I don't personally have any experience with any of them). But it's very hard to know what a school is going to offer and there are very few schools (maybe NYU) that I'd write off as financially not viable before seeing what they give you.

    On a separate topic, but perhaps indirectly relevant to the creation of a college list, if gigging is already "losing its luster" in high school, that would seem like a bit of a warning signal for someone who is hoping to make a career in jazz performance, It may also be a sign that the student needs to have a broader universe of musicians to play with and develop with. I recognize that there are pluses and minuses to urban versus rural in choosing a school, and ultimately you want to find a place where the student is comfortable and can develop best musically, which could be in either setting depending on the student. But one definite advantage to the urban setting, or at least the jazz mecca that is NYC, is the huge universe of jazz musicians available to play with, grow with, learn from and be inspired by.
  • GoForthGoForth Registered User Posts: 714 Member
    edited January 2016
    @jazzpianodad - that is a good point that "urban" or "being near other schools" could just as well be equivalent to being in a huge, competitive student body.

    The way I meant "losing its luster" is that it is losing its mystery. It is becoming known how to get gigs, where gigs might be gotten. So it is less like a missing vitamin in the diet, less like an unknown road.

    @ScreenName48105 - Yes, that room and board adds to it. There is some mitigation in that we are not buying food for S here at home. Another sort of mitigation is that W and I will be free to move to a different/smaller location. If we had a full tuition deal and had to pay room, board, and normal sized fees, books and so forth, that is OK.

    @drummergirl - how is Oberlin as far as number of people to play with? Actually, I believe there exists a scenario where you could go to a place with a small number of people and an ideal-for-you professor and come out 4 years later as the best-you-could-have-become, but identifying that scenario has not yet happened, so having a large peer group and a very good professor seems more possible to find on purpose.
  • musicalkidsmusicalkids Registered User Posts: 85 Junior Member
    @GoForth, one thing to note about DePaul's School of Music is that the tuition rate is frozen for all four undergraduate years: "The School of Music's undergraduate tuition is billed as a guaranteed package rate, meaning you pay one flat fee each year for all of your coursework and you are billed the same rate each year you are in a program for up to four years. In other words, your tuition rate is locked in at the tuition rate you pay in your first year of the program." I don't know of any other schools that do this.
  • ScreenName48105ScreenName48105 Registered User Posts: 517 Member
    On a separate topic, but perhaps indirectly relevant to the creation of a college list, if gigging is already "losing its luster" in high school, that would seem like a bit of a warning signal for someone who is hoping to make a career in jazz performance
    I brought this up. I just meant that it's losing its glamour. My son's quintet is playing at the Detroit Auto Show Charity Gala tonight. It's a cool gig; black tie, lots of celebrities, TV time. Being high school kids, they get a lot of attention. But it also means being there by 4pm to go through security, schlepping all their gear through ice/snow from their assigned parking lot two blocks away. They play until 10pm; it'll be midnight before they get home. Eight hours for their "15 minutes of fame", as they say. The first year, he was super excited... this year, it's a "job" that's barely worth the logistics.

    On the other hand, he's participated in a lot of masterclasses (i.e. his combo plays and the guest artist critiques them and works with them) with some great musicians and he gets so much more out of those performances. A few years ago, if there was a conflict between a gig and a masterclass, he would always have chosen the gig. Today, he's much more likely to choose the class, and as he's gotten older and better, the clinicians have been tougher and more demanding. He's realistic enough to know that he's not going to be "gigging" with that level of musicians for a long time, and that his interaction with them will be in an educational setting, hence his focus on faculty over gigging opportunities.

    @GoForth, I'm in about the same boat financially. An EFC of $17K essentially means being able to pay for R&B, fees, books for big city schools in Boston, NYC, LA. When I used the NPC's for my son's schools, Oberlin came out the most affordable, with the exception of Michigan/Michigan State which are in-state for us.
  • rockinmomabrockinmomab Registered User Posts: 225 Junior Member
    I would be a little weary of my child majoring in Music if they are already tired of gigging. A lot of what a musician has to do is not glamorous. Especially, when you will have to pay the bills. It is hard work. Some students leave Music school after their first semester because they realize that it might be just a hobby or they feel their "music" now feels like a job. My son has several friends who have come to this realization. It's not all fun and games and it is a lot of work. Good luck to everyone!
  • bridgenailbridgenail Registered User Posts: 882 Member
    I can't comment on jazz so my contributions are just food for thought - and their seconds as I know you have thought of them already!

    Going back to your original question, keep in mind a "list" is ever evolving. To me it looks like you have a few solids (at least for now), a few other you are certainly considering (Oberlin, Temple - anything between Chicagoland to NYC area) and a few that are an intriguing, expensive lights (and ultimately could be a fly trap - NYU - frankly I'd go light on these schools unless there is one - just to see).

    ScreenName48105's earlier comment reminded me that WE had NYU on my D's list. She was going off to NYC to make it big! However I encouraged to do all here other apps first and see if she had time for NYU as I explained we could not afford unless a miracle happened. With everything going on in the fall of senior year and barely getting all the other apps and pre-screens done, NYU never happened. And that was because my D had learned a lot and become more realistic during the process.

    As a parent I looked at affordability, told my D not to go down the road of debt (for some this would be fine) and told her to put some variety into her schools choices because ... you never know. For some kids they will stay solid on their choices. But still many will change their opinions over the last 12 months. AND the audition process will continue to shape opinions. I think few leave the process without thinking "if I were to do it again, I would definitely..."

    And U of Miami was one of those schools ... it was on the list, it was off, on again, off again...too expensive (never visited)...well maybe we need another school...last app sent in. She went to a unified audition (for MT), it fit in the schedule, had the greatest audition, and got her biggest scholarship offer. You just never know...

    Good luck!!!
This discussion has been closed.