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A School List resource to help when researching programs and crafting a school list - edited.

beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
edited March 7 in Musical Theater Major
ETA: PERSONAL FIT IS MOST IMPORTANT! A balanced list = schools that are not all extremely low odds at artistic admittance + schools that are not all reaches per the student's current strengths and weaknesses + schools that meet the individual goals (training, opportunities, finances, general university preferences, and more) of each student.

By nature of auditions being required, any audition-based program is selective to some degree.

ALSO, this post's intention is simply to help in school list creation. When evaluating acceptances in hand, students need to make sure the fit is paramount, and things such as recent alumni success and/or new leadership are also critical.
It seems to be more effective to look at the schools in terms of the competitivenss within artistic admission instead of tiers - so that would be EXTREME REACH/LOTTERY (less than 3% acceptance rate **approximate**), REACH (4%-8% **approximate**), SELECTIVE (could be broken down into more competitive at 8%-15/20% , and less competitive at 15/20%+ **approximate**), and NON-AUDITION SAFETIES (which might require an audition for scholarships only). The reason for this shift (tier-thinking to competitiveness-thinking) is that great programs exist across ALL of the categories, and "tiers" tend to insinuate lesser quality, even inadvertently. Knowing this info is important so that you can craft a BALANCED list, regarding difficulty of artistic admission, program focus, and your personal strengths/weaknesses/preferences.
We categorized based upon things programs were known for. See below and hope this helps.

And always remember that no list is exhaustive and YMMV!!

Programs with a dance focus/dance track:
BOCO
Roosevelt
Rider
FSU
TxSt
CCM
PP
Pace
Marymount Manhattan
Hartt

Acting focus:
UNCSA
Otterbein
CMU
Syracuse
Wright St
Emerson
Webster
SUNY Purchase
Julliard
U o Arizona
Ithaca

Music focus:
BW
Shenandoah
Oklahoma City U
Arizona State
NYU Steinhardt
Belmont

Academics weighed more heavily/given more focus:
NYU
Michigan
Elon
Northwestern
FSU
Penn St
Indiana
American
JMU
TCU
UCLA
Miami
U o Oklahoma

Newer/revamped programs:
Ohio U
Texas Tech
U o Arizona
Molloy/CAP 21
Manhattan SoM
Shenandoah
Rutgers
BU
W Carolina U
Western Conn
UNC Greensboro
Missouri St

Discounted/ lower tuition:
TxSt
FSU
Montclair
Missouri St
W Carolina U

Selective (both more which is designated with *, and less)/Hidden gems:
Illinois Wesleyan
American
Ball St*
U N Colorado
CCU*
Ohio N
Viterbo*
W Mich
U Arts*
UCF
MM*
Rider*
JMU
Molloy*
Wagner
Montclair*
SUNY Fred
Temple
Hartt*
Roosevelt
CCPA
Catholic U
UWSP
Wright St*
Central Oklahoma

Non-audition safeties (just a sample):
Muhlenberg
Hofstra
Loyola Chi
U Tulsa
Chris newport
Cal St

Extreme/ Lottery/Reach:
Michiagn
CMU
CCM
BW
Penn St
FSU
Syracuse
Ithaca
Elon
TxSt
NYU
Pace
NW (audition after freshman year)
Millikin
Shen
Otterbein
OkCityU
BoCo
Point Park
edited March 7
32 replies
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Replies to: A School List resource to help when researching programs and crafting a school list - edited.

  • Notmath1Notmath1 554 replies36 threadsRegistered User Member
    @beachymom You need to add University of Southern California to the academic list
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  • beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    @Notmath1 I wish I could add, but after 15 minutes no edits can be made. :( I can do an entirely new post, but might wait until the end of this audition cycle to see if any other ammendments need to be done, as well. Do you think this list will be helpful to future students in the prep/research phase of creating a balanced list?
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  • MTMOM17MTMOM17 380 replies10 threadsRegistered User Member
    @beachymom my daughter is at the University of Miami and absolutely loves it. FYI, It’s an acting based program and it’s very competitive.
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  • beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    edited March 7
    @MTMOM17 you are correct! And it does have a great acting focus. In a different group on Facebook, I also included a category on "equal focus across all 3 main disciplines" and U of Miami was actually in that group (along with Michigan, Ithaca, Indiana, Tisch, Oklahoma, Penn St, and Elon), as well as in the cat for most academic.
    If I re-write the list in a new post after this year's audition cycle comes to an end, I'll include the "equal" category.
    edited March 7
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  • mindatworkmindatwork 135 replies5 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    If you make a new list at the end of this cycle, I would also include Temple on the newer/revamped list since they changed from a BA to a BFA in the last few years :)
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  • lithpoollithpool 409 replies14 threadsRegistered User Member
    @beachymom Thank you for putting this together, as it should be helpful to future classes looking to get into MT! (Of course, perceptions of which schools belong in which list will no doubt be discussed...lol) Personally, I love all the info that people provide and adjust to suit our individual needs, as I'm sure most do to. I've added in Western CT State U (WCSU) to the 'Selective' list, USC to the academic list as @Notmath1 suggested, and U AL-Birmingham to the "newer/revamped' list. I'm sure others will join in to add....

    ETA: PERSONAL FIT IS MOST IMPORTANT! A balanced list = schools that are not all extremely low odds at artistic admittance + schools that are not all reaches per the student's current strengths and weaknesses + schools that meet the individual goals (training, opportunities, finances, general university preferences, and more) of each student.

    By nature of auditions being required, any audition-based program is selective to some degree.

    ALSO, this post's intention is simply to help in school list creation. When evaluating acceptances in hand, students need to make sure the fit is paramount, and things such as recent alumni success and/or new leadership are also critical.
    It seems to be more effective to look at the schools in terms of the competitivenss within artistic admission instead of tiers - so that would be EXTREME REACH/LOTTERY (less than 3% acceptance rate **approximate**), REACH (4%-8% **approximate**), SELECTIVE (could be broken down into more competitive at 8%-15/20% , and less competitive at 15/20%+ **approximate**), and NON-AUDITION SAFETIES (which might require an audition for scholarships only). The reason for this shift (tier-thinking to competitiveness-thinking) is that great programs exist across ALL of the categories, and "tiers" tend to insinuate lesser quality, even inadvertently. Knowing this info is important so that you can craft a BALANCED list, regarding difficulty of artistic admission, program focus, and your personal strengths/weaknesses/preferences.
    We categorized based upon things programs were known for. See below and hope this helps.

    And always remember that no list is exhaustive and YMMV!!

    Programs with a dance focus/dance track:
    BOCO
    Roosevelt
    Rider
    FSU
    TxSt
    CCM
    PP
    Pace
    Marymount Manhattan
    Hartt

    Acting focus:
    UNCSA
    Otterbein
    CMU
    Syracuse
    Wright St
    Emerson
    Webster
    SUNY Purchase
    Julliard
    U o Arizona
    Ithaca

    Music focus:
    BW
    Shenandoah
    Oklahoma City U
    Arizona State
    NYU Steinhardt
    Belmont

    Academics weighed more heavily/given more focus:
    NYU
    Michigan
    Elon
    Northwestern
    FSU
    Penn St
    Indiana
    American
    JMU
    TCU
    UCLA
    Miami
    U o Oklahoma
    U Southern CA

    Newer/revamped programs:
    Ohio U
    Texas Tech
    U o Arizona
    Molloy/CAP 21
    Manhattan SoM
    Shenandoah
    Rutgers
    BU
    W Carolina U
    Western Conn
    UNC Greensboro
    Missouri St
    U AL-Birmingham (UAB)

    Discounted/ lower tuition:
    TxSt
    FSU
    Montclair
    Missouri St
    W Carolina U

    Selective (both more which is designated with *, and less)/Hidden gems:
    Illinois Wesleyan
    American
    Ball St*
    U N Colorado
    CCU*
    Ohio N
    Viterbo*
    W Mich
    U Arts*
    UCF
    MM*
    Rider*
    JMU
    Molloy*
    Wagner
    Montclair*
    SUNY Fred
    Temple
    Hartt*
    Roosevelt
    CCPA
    Catholic U
    UWSP
    Wright St*
    Central Oklahoma
    Western CT State U (WCSU)

    Non-audition safeties (just a sample):
    Muhlenberg
    Hofstra
    Loyola Chi
    U Tulsa
    Chris newport
    Cal St

    Extreme/ Lottery/Reach:
    Michiagn
    CMU
    CCM
    BW
    Penn St
    FSU
    Syracuse
    Ithaca
    Elon
    TxSt
    NYU
    Pace
    NW (audition after freshman year)
    Millikin
    Shen
    Otterbein
    OkCityU
    BoCo
    Point Park
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  • afterp89afterp89 377 replies2 threadsRegistered User Member
    West Virginia Univ for newer/revamped list
    LIU Post, Kent State and Nebraska Wesleyan for the selective list
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  • speezagmomspeezagmom 364 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    I don't want to mess up the list, but I think it would be interesting to know if people have updates to the acceptance rate for the various schools. I wonder how many of the "selectives" are actually moving into the reach category. I know I was told (by the recuiting/audition coordinator) the numbers of auditions and acceptances for the 2022 class at Molloy/CAP21. Based on those numbers, their acceptance rate was about 6.7% and Yield was about 3%. I bet there are others that we currently think of as "selective" that have also moved up to the reach category - likely because of the increased number schools each individual applies to.
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  • beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    edited March 7
    @speezagmom you make a great point, and honestly I might get rid of the percentages all together (or make them much more general, ie - "less than 3%" , "less than 8%") in the next list. That would also mean separating the reach caegoryt from extreme reach and lottery. Thoughts?
    edited March 7
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  • speezagmomspeezagmom 364 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    @beachymom I like it assuming we have the info to create such an objective list. I was thinking about that last night. If I had more time on my hands, I might try to call the departments after May 1 and see if they would give out those numbers. Wouldn't that be an amazing spreadsheet to be able to provide to people?
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  • beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    @speezagmom - that would be quite interesting. The challenge would be making the numbers uniform, for ex - what constitutes the number in the applicant pool (thespian conferences, regional auditions, accepted prescreens or all prescreens, etc.
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  • TexasMTDadTexasMTDad 141 replies0 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    Wouldn't number of students accepted be a better barometer? I mean if they are all accepting the same 20 kids, then it doesn't matter if only 100 apply or if 3,000 apply, right?
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  • speezagmomspeezagmom 364 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    Yes and no. If they only audition 100 and 20 get a spot, those are fairly good odds in this business. If they audition 1200 and accept 20, the odds of acceptance are close to lottery ticket odds. If you have that information, you can build your list to ensure that you include both those schools to try to smooth out your odds of acceptance rather than ending up with all lottery odds type schools. I think that's the theory anyway.
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  • speezagmomspeezagmom 364 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    @beachymom Good question. I would think that anyone that "auditions" for them counts. So at a theater conference, maybe they only count the call-backs since they would see a bunch in a cattle call for multiple schools but then only call back those they will really consider - and that's the actual audition. Maybe? I don't know.
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  • TexasMTDadTexasMTDad 141 replies0 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    Do we have any idea which schools give substantial aid? For example, Pace is known for giving good merit scholarships, and Montclair will give in-state tuition. I think this is almost as important as knowing which schools are difficult to get into.
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  • beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    @TexasMTDad - I do have a category in the list that contains schools with discounted/low tuition. :) I don't include those who give good merit awards (ie Pace), only because even with great scholarships, they can still be pricey.
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  • TexasMTDadTexasMTDad 141 replies0 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    Just trying to get a feel for whether some schools just don't give any help. Pace after aid is expensive, but it is not CMU without aid... but I have no idea whether to expect aid from CMU... well CMU is a bad example, but you get my point.
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  • MTMOM17MTMOM17 380 replies10 threadsRegistered User Member
    I can tell you that the University of Miami offered my daughter significant aid in the form of scholarships and grants, making her tuition almost comparable to State School tuition.

    But I’ll also add that she’s an academic kid as well as an MT kid, with good grades and ACT score.
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  • speezagmomspeezagmom 364 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    My comment on merit is subjective and anecdotal - In our experience, private schools gave much higher merit than state schools, but they also had a higher price tag to begin with in many cases. (NYU was more expensive than any private school on our list and is known for not giving out much in terms of merit.) Also, if you have good grades/test scores, a school that is great for MT but maybe isn't considered the most competitive academically will often give more merit because you're in the top tier of their applicants.
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  • beachymombeachymom 237 replies44 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    @TexasMTDad I see what you are saying. The only ones that would be easy to detect are those with automatic merit based on grades and scores. Talent, need-based, and named/university grants are both subjective and variable. Factors that determine amounts could depend on: the year (how much the department has to offer), the kid (how they rank at the school and what their other offers are), the college (have named grants already been allocated).
    Examples of schools that make merit awards clear/transparent (that we have personal experience with) include - Baldwin Wallace and Arizona. Obviously there are others.
    Schools that work hard to make special circumstances (we have a unique situation, and this is only based on our experience) or need-based situations work include: Coastal Carolina, BW, Carnegie, Shenandoah.
    I'm sure more folks will weigh in.
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